First project a flop. Must refinish.

scollins · Post by **scollins** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:27 am

First question is how long did you allow the finish to dry after the oil based stain. I believe the polyacylic is water based. If so, then all of the solvent in the oil based product must evaporate before using the water based top coat.
Otherwise the solvent wiill cause the water based topcoat to crakle or not adhere.

Second question is did you scuff sand in between coats. If not go back and gently sand down the nibs (roughness) and try recoating. If you sand thru your top coat you will have to restain.

Third question is plywood quality. If it is the import junk then it may be delaminating.

As to pre-stain or finish period, read the instructions on the can. I believe someone suggested waiting 2-3 days before applying stain over conditioner. Most pre-conditioners give you a window of time to apply the stain over the conditioner. Some recommend applying within 15 minutes-2 hours.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:51 am

magnaman wrote:I made a simple TV cabinet with raised panel doors for the DVD, etc. Used oak plywood and red oak lumber. Finish was 1. Minwax pre-stain 2. 3 coats Minwax oil based Golden Oak stain 3. Minwax polycrylic finish.

It looked great when it was completed but now it is blotchy with large patches of what looks like no stain at all. And the grain has raised and it needs to be resanded.

What went wrong?

While some projects are not complete successes, no project is a flop. Even if you end up using the remains for firewood, you have learned something - thus "no flop".

I can touch and feel a few of my projects but there are many that probably do not even exist today.

I would guess that resanding and restaining is not going to change the final appearance. I believe the grain characteristics get the most credit for how the stain took.

On big projects (important projects) I try to prestain samples so that I know what to expect.

magnaman · Post by **magnaman** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:22 pm

Thank you for all the replies. They are very helpful.
I have tried to attach some pics. The first four are from the TV cabinet and the last one is a raised panel door I put over a TV cabinet in the motorhome. I included it because I used the same Minwax pre-stain and stain as the TV cabinet but used Minwax oil based polyurethane instead of the polycrylic.

The prestain can says to apply the first coat of stain after 15 minutes so that is what I did in both cases. I did sand the polycrylic between coats but I did one coat in the early morning before breakfast and the other just after supper. I don't remember how long between stain coats.

When I did photography for a hobby I used to keep detailed records of my work for just this type of problem. So I guess a record book will be the next purchase.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:40 pm

magnaman wrote:Thank you for all the replies. They are very helpful.
I have tried to attach some pics. The first four are from the TV cabinet and the last one is a raised panel door I put over a TV cabinet in the motorhome. I included it because I used the same Minwax pre-stain and stain as the TV cabinet but used Minwax oil based polyurethane instead of the polycrylic.

The prestain can says to apply the first coat of stain after 15 minutes so that is what I did in both cases. I did sand the polycrylic between coats but I did one coat in the early morning before breakfast and the other just after supper. I don't remember how long between stain coats.

When I did photography for a hobby I used to keep detailed records of my work for just this type of problem. So I guess a record book will be the next purchase.

To me that looks like blushing and is caused by not letting the stain throughly dry. Or it could be oil (silcone) or glue contaimination

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:01 pm

For sure it ain't fleck!

I would be inclined to strip, sand and start over!:(

pennview · Post by **pennview** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:14 pm

It may be that you got too much pre-stain in certain areas. Pre-stain seals the wood somewhat, so too much of it will seal it and prevent the stain from being absorbed into the wood. Again, you don't need a pre-stain on oak, as it's primary purpose is to prevent blotching on woods like pine, maple and cherry.

Also, you're better off sticking with either all oil-based products or all water-based products when finishing, in order to prevent compatibility problems.

If you strip off the water-based topcoat, you may be able to use an oil-based gel finish which combines both varnish and stain. Apply small amounts of the gel finish over the lightly colored areas, trying to blend it into the surrounding areas. After that dries, cover the entire project with a coat or two of the gel finish.

mrhart · Post by **mrhart** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:11 pm

Only thing I see wrong, is that you need to be complimented on what a nice cabinet you made.

No one will ever know after you redo the finish but you.

holsgo · Post by **holsgo** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:11 pm

That does look like the stain failed to absorb. I would strip and redo. That doesn't look isolated to one area.
I almost never use a pre stain/sealer of any type except on end grain. Use a good oil based stain and then an oil poly. You can even use a spray can of the oil poly to lay down nice even coats sanding between. If you have any interest in polishing it then you need to do many coats, if not then just do 2 or 3 to make sure the finish is even.

berry · Post by **berry** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:29 pm

magnaman wrote: When I did photography for a hobby I used to keep detailed records of my work for just this type of problem. So I guess a record book will be the next purchase.

I've kept a journal of shop projects for years now:

1. Who the project is for; 2. The type of wood and were I got it; 3. Season and year; 4. Where I got the plans (with issue and page) if it's from a magazine; 5. I list any problems and the action I took; 6. Any special set-ups of equipment; 7. And of course the finishing schedule and materials I employed.

Now I take pictures too.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:14 pm

I disagree on the pre stain Oak has very open pores and stain will soak into them and makes the wood look artificial. Pre stain will seal those pores so the finish goes on even.

Yes I know most everyone is use to seeing oak with deep dark pores. Unless they see it without then they will want to stain it that way.

I still think it was either contaimination or not a long enough drying of the pre stain.

I would sand, and if were me I would wet sand using clear Watco Oil, Tung oil or Boiled Linseed oil as a lubricant for the wet sanding. What will happen is the sanding dust will be forced into the oak pores and seal them. Then a thinned coat of Poly and then a full coat.

I would wet sand with oil and wait at the very least one day. Then I would coat the thinned poly and wait probably 2 days and then I would do the finish coat. After the oil finish is dried you will be able to tell if you got all the contaminate off or not. If not just sand it some more and do again.