Rethinking shop design

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:17 am

Not just my shop but shops in general... I'm always rethinking my shop.

I have been working on my shop some lately (finally) and have been making some observations. I am setting up my western boot rebuilding shop in a corner of the current woodshop (I am hoping to "shoe-horn" it into an 8'x16' space in front of an 8' picture window).
I have another building only about 50' from the house that I want it in more permanently that will make a really nice boot shop but it will need a fair amount of remodeling and I want to get up and running next month. I want the boot shop to pay the bill for the remodeling of that other building.
The current woodshop is pretty easy to keep heated and since the boot shop machinery is even far heavier the the woodworking machinery to move and since it is already stored in a back corner of the woodshop it just seems like the best place to set it up to start with.
Cleaning the woodshop out is what prompts the rethinking of shop design. I have been having some allergic reactions to all of the dust I am stirring up sweeping. I never had such allergies in the past but seem more prone now. I try to remember to slip on a dust mask when I grab a broom but often forget. I also have a full beard and the mask seal to my face is weak. I have been doing most of the cleaning in the early evening with the sun streaming in the west windows. There is nothing like beams of bright October sun to show you just how much dust is floating in the air. The air is really full of dust here now anyway since crop harvest is in full swing here and a car sitting in the drive will acquire a good layer of dust in less than a day. I was sweeping up Tuesday evening and since there were no chunks or nails in it I tossed the 4" hose from one of the DC's down on the floor and swept toward it. With the sun I could see that it was doing a decent job of pulling the dust in the air into the hose even from 6 to 8 feet away. That got me to thinking that the box with fan and filters I want to hang up near the ceiling is not a good enough answer to the fine dust problem... I am not sure how much of the really fine dust (the worst kind) was coming through the bags on the DC but I'm not too worried about that because they will be in another room to start with and soon I intend to be venting them outside away from the shop and not using the bags. Note that my closest neighbor is a half mile away.
I'm not sure yet of the best way to pull it off but I am convinced that the shop floor should be built much like a sanding table... I am unaware of anybody selling 1" thick pegboard

but maybe some kind of slot system would work. Even a narrow, well supported slot every 2' across the floor (maybe 1/4" slots) might be enough. A dust collector(s) connected to the floor system would not need to run full time, just when making dust or sweeping etc. then maybe another 15 minutes after. This would be in addition to the ceiling hung unit. Some kind of grid system with lift out sections might be good. Meanwhile I intend to reduce broom sweeping and start using my big Shop-vac with a set of wands and a floor nozzle.
I have been researching COPD (Google it) a little lately since I am in several high risk groups for it due to past occupations etc. Actually woodworking, especially working a lot with a lot exotics is one of the groups I have seen.
I'm sure that others have been looking at this. Has anyone found any good ideas?

.

mrhart · Post by **mrhart** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:13 am

What if you framed the floor in like a boxed plenum with an air handler ducted to one end with an upper end filter system attached. Then lay your actual flooring over the top with gaps between the boards, or a perferated flooring of some kind. The air would be pulling down towards your feet all the time instead of up towards your head. If the building was tight enough, you could have the air recirc in that manner and filtered and/or bring in some outside air.

magnaman · Post by **magnaman** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:22 am

After working in the woodshop I have a runny nose and sneeze a lot for a couple of days. But I am good about wearing a respirator mask when doing routing, machine sanding with any sander, and bandsaw.
I got a Ridgid shopvac that can handle different levels of filtration right up thru HEPA. From what I have seen the stock filter does a good enough job for me when sweeping the shop which I have to do a lot. My old Sears shopvac often made me worse off after sweeping there was so much dust blowing out the other end of it. I'm sure most shopvacs today offer these filters.

If you open one side of your shop (like a couple of windows) and suck the dust out the other side with exhaust fans that would work but it would kill you on heating bills. To recycle filtered air seems to be necessary. If you put several 2'x4' peg boards in the ceiling directly above certain tools and hooked them up to a series of filters and a large intake fan could you then route the exhaust through tubes to the floor of the shop at points all around it?
I'm going to experiment with my shopvac with one of these 2x4 pegboards and view the input and output in the sunlight to see if it might work.

On edit, I think the above post beats mine. But I can't figure out how to do the floor. Could the intakes be at floor level along the walls? If so, you could exhaust the filtered air in the middle of the ceiling to flow the dust out of the center of the room.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:44 am

Know anybody that has dismantled a computer room raised floor and kept the 'parts'? IIRC they consisted of a framework into which 2' x 2' 'tiles' were inserted. Aluminum as I recall. Some were slotted/perforated.

Perhaps a farmer's 'I can do that attitude' will come up with a similar arrangement using more commonly obtainable 'stuff'.

Shop_Smith_Poppi · Post by **Shop_Smith_Poppi** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:29 am

If your building it new why cant you duct in your vacuum system into your concrete? Then have the return in the ceilings.

Now if it is an existing shop and concrete is the floor you have now. I suggest you get a Cutting saw and cut out trenches and duct in your vacuum system. then refill with concrete.

If you have a wooden floor there are several options too many for me list here.

But I like the ideal of a concrete floor in this so I would suggest tearing out teh wooden floor and replacing it with concrete.

I can say that my shop plans call a central vacuum system that will include a foor system that is inside the concrete floor with suction areas below counters and cabinets, under saws and other machinery and some ports for hose connections and also floor sweeping ports.

This should seal the vacuum system as well. The Vacuum will be in a small room with the air compressor and water heater and hopefully heater. I guess it will be like a mechanical room of sorts.

so this this room can be sound proofed as I have ring the ears already and I hate the sound of running machinery on top of that. such as air compressors and the like.

Oddly..... For some reason a table saw or lathe has not seemed to bother me.

jimthej · Post by **jimthej** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:39 am

I suspect that a perforated floor might become an out-of-reach small parts black hole.
On the other hand, hot air rises, cold falls.
I am thinking that a relatively smooth floor, a hepa filtered shop vac for cleanup, an old fashioned treated dust mop for final stage, would be easier to engineer. Used daily!
Add overhead filtered fans near major dust producers to reduce airborne particles.

greitz · Post by **greitz** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:04 pm

Farmer- are there any nearby semiconductor or pharmaceutical manufacturing facilities which have closed up shop and are selling off equipment? Their cleanrooms may have perforated flooring, filtration systems, etc.

If you google "cleanroom design", there's lots of info available on designing room airflow to capture/eliminate particles of various sizes.

Gary

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:00 pm

jimthej wrote:I suspect that a perforated floor might become an out-of-reach small parts black hole.
On the other hand, hot air rises, cold falls.
I am thinking that a relatively smooth floor, a hepa filtered shop vac for cleanup, an old fashioned treated dust mop for final stage, would be easier to engineer. Used daily!
Add overhead filtered fans near major dust producers to reduce airborne particles.

You know I really like the dust-mop thought... Dust mops can just be pushed across the floor where a push-broom really has to be worked at especially on a slightly rough concrete surface. My current floor is kind of rough for a dust-mop but would be fine with a good coat or two of porch and floor enamel to fill the surface. With everything being on wheels there would be a very minimum of corners needing sweeping out and I can suck those clean with a shop-vac.

That will be my immediate solution... Then I will pursue additional options.
The very last thing I would ever consider would be a concrete floor. I want to install a wood floor over this floor but that is not in this falls fudget.

When I do I will install hot water (hydronic) heat under it. For now I will use my rubber mats at work spots like in front of the bench etc. A section of rubber mat has saved more than one dropped tool as well as my feet and legs. The boot shop's main work area will have a couple of 4' x 6' x 3/4" rubber horse stall mats. I pay about $30 each for them at a farm store. Very tough but nice to stand on (really heavy to move around though).

I have a big ceiling fan up in the center of the cathedral ceiling area and I am thinking of putting a framework up above it to hold furnace filters like a big flat platform. I might even use some extra suspended ceiling frame work pieces to make the frame. I keep that fan running at medium speed 24-7-365 blowing down. I would mount the frame as low to the blades as possible. I have a few rolls of plastic static filter medium and I could make light wooden frames to fit the grid and attach the medium. You can just wash the medium with a garden hose and put it back. The air flow recharges the static attraction.

.

jm51 · Post by **jm51** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:43 pm

Was reading this last night:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=g9QD ... &q&f=false

That came out not quite right...page 158, it's a diy central vacuum system.

jimsjinx · Post by **jimsjinx** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:31 pm

About the best, most effective way for me is cross ventillating with a large fan. My dream system would be an intake wall, ( say 4'x4'), with filtration, and an exaust wall at the opposite end. The metal flapper type in/out vents would be lockable, and made of steel. Right now, I am fighting with dust daily. I spray after a clean-up, and do this with the doors closed. Then, after the finish sets up enough, I open the garage door, and suck it out with a 36" exaust fan. BRRRRR in the winter! Dripping sweat in the summer. I have air conditioning, and heat, but I just gotta open up after spraying or sanding, so the power bill suffers. I am working on my shop layout as well. Never happy with it!! IT"S ALIVE!!! jimsjinx