Finish question

[dgale]

I've had pieces of the same piece of wood (notably maple) finish slightly differently though, due to varying grain density and of course an inconsistent application.

True but I'd rather practice and experiment on a scrap from the same wood than on a piece of furniture I just put a lot of hard work into building...once you apply a stain or finish, you'd better like it as there's no going back.

[fjimp]

True but I'd rather practice and experiment on a scrap from the same wood than on a piece of furniture I just put a lot of hard work into building...once you apply a stain or finish, you'd better like it as there's no going back.

So true. My worst finish experiences have occurred with Maple. Most recently was a custom sewing machine cabinet for my bride. Most surfaces were close in color depth an desired shine except for a door which was from Maple but a different lot of wood. I had read where others expressed concerns thus I tried to pick a good sanding sealer. It seems my local paint expert was clueless. In fact later when I ask another finishing question related to abrasives discovered he was totally clueless. He had no idea there were abrasives finer than 220 grit. In fact he suggested that I am the expert wood finisher in our area and should enlighten him. How's that for a stretch. Since that experience I have done additional research and have purchased some oil based wood conditioners and sealers from General. I liked the idea of latex (water based) finishes but felt let down by the concept. Both Woodcraft and Rockler carry them in my area. I have tried them on an oak spice rack and was very pleased. I am yet to try them with maple. Jim

[garys]

I agree with reftech. I have never had acceptable results with any of the one step stain/finishes.
I build all my own furniture and also refinish a lot of old furniture I find. If I decide that I want to stain the wood, I use paste stains. They give a much nicer and more even finish than the liquids. Most woods I do not stain at all because I want the natural color.
Then I finish with polyurethane. I haven't found anything else that gives me the finish and durability I want.
Often with old furniture I'm refinishing, I'm removing old failed shellac that somebody probably spilled coffee on once, so they get rid of the furniture. The only good thing I can say about shellac is that it isn't durable so it is easy to remove.

[tomsalwasser]

I resist doing furniture for this very reason. I just do not have what it takes to put a good finish on furniture. I enjoy building up to the point of preparation for finish and applying same.

I hear you there Dusty. Finishing is messy and it scares me. I have only a few tricks in my bag that were taught to me by professionals.

1) Hirshfield's One Hour Finish. This is a quick drying varnish-like product that a painter friend of mine recommended. Hirshfield's is a local paint company in the midwest but you could probably buy some over the phone. I put it on bare wood furniture like cherry, oak or walnut...wood that looks beautiful already and doesn't need stain. After 2 or 3 coats of HOHF you will be amazed at how easy it was and how beautiful your project is. It is oil based so you have to clean your roller or brush with mineral spirits. Sand lightly between coats.

2) Watco Danish oil. You can get this anywhere and it comes in quite a few colors. Apply with brush, pad or rag, wait awhile, then wipe off what didn't soak in. Repeat as needed. This one is really easy and makes a beautiful, long lasting finish.

3) OOPS Latex wall paint makes attractive painted pieces. This is paint that was mixed by mistake, available by the cart full in any paint store, usually for $5 per gallon. Love to use this.

4) I am experimenting wiith Zinnser's Amber Shellac. I'll keep you posted but so far it seems to pass my number one requirement of being idiot-proof and it is really pretty.

[tomsalwasser]

The only good thing I can say about shellac is that it isn't durable so it is easy to remove.

Gary do you think a few coats of wax would provide some protection on a shellac finish? I'm also experimenting with using the One Hour Finish mentioned above as a sealer on top of my last coat of shellac. My painter friend said it was ok to use that way but I'm testing it on a scrap anyway. So far so good.

[pennview]

For best results, you need to use "de-waxed" shellac if you want to apply a different finish over top of it. Shellac generally contains wax, but Zinsser Seal Coat is a clear, wax free shellac and guaranteed compatible with other finishes. Amber/orange shellac likely still has some wax in it.

Shellac makes a wonderful finish on it's own, but there are a few shortcomings. It isn't water resistant and alcohol will damage it, so you wouldn't want to use it on a dining room table. On the other hand, it's very easy to repair and dries quickly. Some alcohol and steel wool will remove an old shellac finish, and you can clean your brushes with ammonia and water inexpensively.

[tomsalwasser]

Thanks Art. My current project is a piece of bedroom furniture (not worried about spills) so I'm thinking of applying 4 coats of amber shellac and quitting. On my test board it's beautiful...it's even got an iridescent quality that is really catching my eye. It goes on very quick and easy and dries fast. Never used it before but I'm having fun with it.

[JPG]

Gary do you think a few coats of wax would provide some protection on a shellac finish? I'm also experimenting with using the One Hour Finish mentioned above as a sealer on top of my last coat of shellac. My painter friend said it was ok to use that way but I'm testing it on a scrap anyway. So far so good.

Shellac is often used as a primer since it dries very fast. It also is a purty good sealer. Well not for alcohol though!

[dan1999]

One of the hardest things to do is get a stained finish on maple and pine without a splotch. I have two methods to accomplish this the first is apply a light cover coat over the wood with a blond shellac, I don't want the shellac colouring the finish, I then add a wiping stain over the material in long even strokes and try not to have much overlap. Then you take a clean rag and wipe the excess off again in long even strokes if you find that missed a spot do it all over again do not try to just fix the spot you missed, it will show.
Second method, a use a 5% mix of lacquer to 95% thinner, this is called a wash coat it puts a very fine layer of lacquer on the wood so that when you do your staining it will spread evenly and not splotch. My preferred method of adding a final coat is to use lacquer, my personal favourite is to use 35 degree I don't like or want a high shine most of the time and 35 degree does give a nice finish.
The other thing is don't expect the local guy is any of the big box store to have any real idea as to finishing they just repeat when someone else told them. I spent a half hour explaining finishing to one of the guys at home depot and after 5 minutes he just looked at me slack jawed but I think some of started to sink in. If you want any true advise that is of any value speak to the guys that sell the lacquers, stains and spray equipment industrial stuff they are real helpful and knowledgable. Or do what I did take a finishing course at the local college it lasts about 10 months the only bad part is that the course costs about $6,000 but because I live in Canada it cost me nothing. One of joys of living in a socialist country. I am just being an ass about the last part. Seriously a finishing course is very enlightening.

Dan

[tomsalwasser]

Dan I understand what you're saying. Finishing is a black art practiced by modern day alchemists with potions and spells. I just can't do it, except in the very limited and simple "idiot-proof" ways I've described above. Thanks for your recipe, though I'm not sure I'll ever have the nerve to try it.