Hi

[rjent]

You have to ask yourself what are you doing it for. If productions is your goal, then yes get a CNC production machine and God bless you, if you want (as you alluded to in your first post) a new hobby, learn and use the machine. You will still get the same results, it will take longer, you will learn more, and you can honestly say that you made them, not a machine ... You can buy a template to help you drill them.

Just depends on what you want to do ...


JMHO

[artman60]

ERlover, no problem, talk to my kid, he's gonna say I sound just like you LOL. Rjent I have so many thoughts right now, and I'm still months away from starting this. I like to gather all the info I can , puzzle my thoughts, and then spend the dinero, hopefully wisefully. I am thinking that it makes sense to make the WWP cribbage boards like a business would, cost effectively/efficiently. I also want to make specialty/ fine wood working cribbage boards for myself, and my friends that play. These will be more labor intensive, but I'll be shooting for works of art (or as close as I can get, my name is art, so that works in my favor LOL). I also want any hope chest I make, to be as stunning as I am capable of. All of these projects strike me as a very fun way to spend my off time, versus watching the idiot box (which I am doing too much of right now). I know I can get a template, and I'm sure the Southbend is up for it, but where is the line between machine made? craftsman made? and a cribbage board that looks like it was made by a 10 year old, borrowing Dad's tools on the sly? I don't have any skills on the computer, I mean I can e-mail, I used to make calendars, I can post photo's , but I'm not able to write code (not sure I want to take all the classes to learn that). Nothing in my plans/pipe dream is concrete yet, just mulling lot's of thoughts, of course 20 something years ago, that led to a boat purchase. LOL. I do believe that March/April I will be buying a Shopsmith from CL, or maybe more likely from Shopsmith. I need something worthwhile to do. Artie

[artman60]

Also since I am being so longwinded, you know how some things offend your sensibilities? Well whatever the opposite of that is, is how I feel about the Shopsmith. If I won the lottery I would have a house with a nice barn/work shop next to it, and I would have the full range of stand alone machines, but I would still have a Shopsmith. Kinda like the old mills where the river powered a shaft and all the leather belts were attached to it, to run whatever it was you needed run. Anyhoo that's it for me, gotta do an electrical demo on a bathroom for a friend, and then fix an outlet that's not working for a friend of the Missus's, then I start my own bathroom demo. Artie

[Beave2012]

but where is the line between machine made? craftsman made? and a cribbage board that looks like it was made by a 10 year old, borrowing Dad's tools on the sly?

The line is wherever you want it. However, for extremely fine items, especially small items like a cribbage board, obsessive attention to detail is what I find makes the best item. Spending time with a chisel to fine tune those joints for example, treat it like that car you would wax every weekend.

However, the best part about it is that YOU built it. Sure you can program in X Y and Z co-ordinates for a CNC, but that machine made it...

However, still my favorite part is figuring out the problem. I don't like screws and metal hardware, so figuring out how to do proper joints is AWESOME. Granted no will know it has no hardware usually, but it does bring a sense of pride.

So for me, the difference between machine made and craftsman made is the dedication that went into it. The difference between a craftsman and borrowing your dad's tools is experience is all, both have great character and to the right people they are better than any purchased item (ie. a hope chest made by family for you)

[artman60]

Beave, I am in agreement with you, the point i didn't make (but tried) is you can have different projects that you direct the different levels at. Cribbage boards to raise money, must be good, but in my experience, exceptional will not raise a higher donation from most people. Cribbage boards made for specific people, who will think of me everytime they use it , ahhh that's another story. I'm just saying that for myself there are different levels of fine wood working depending on the circumstances. As an electrician the degree that I do my own work, for myself, versus what a customer is willing to pay for a suitable acceptable, job, or a job that is the best it can be, are vey different. Main reason why this will be a hobby for me, and not a business. Artie

[Beave2012]

Artie,

I fully agree with you, I tend to go overboard on my own items, and go to satisfactory work on others. However, the only reason I see satisfactory work is for business or cost reasons. I can't do walnut jigs for my shop smith, because I don't want to spend the money. However, I will put my best craftsmanship into it, not for those getting it, but for pride in my work.

For example, I tend to keep all my "less than impressive" prototypes and mistakes, because I only want anything I make to look GREAT. For example I am making dovetailed puzzle boxes for gifts this year, I have my first one made of oak and walnut and it looks nice, and works very well. However, I dislike my inconsistencies that I notice, so I am making the next ones with a lot more detail. I get the crap, anything leaving must look great! So these ones are now maple and mahogany simply because I got a GREAT deal on materials.

Craftsmanship should never drop, cost of materials may cause less than desired results, but true craftsmanship should always increase with each product in my opinion. Even for 1 time use products like my scooby-do cake topper scroll saw'd out, or my toy ninja weapons for my kids for Halloween that for SOME reason I had to use mortise and tenon joints... Why? Because I wanted the challenge and ensure its quality.

[roy_okc]

Artie,

I built a mid-size CNC router a few years ago, just a bit before decent kits became available. The experience of designing, machining, etc. was a great learning experience. However, if I needed a second I'd probably buy a kit.

There are a couple good small kits available today. The Shapeoko 3 and XCarve (a descendant of the Shapeoko 2) are both around $1K plus spindle and bits and optionally good design software (Vectric is awesome) bear investigating. I'd personally lean toward the Shapeoko 3 due to its much stronger extrusion.

Roy

[masonsailor2]

Welcome to SS McGiver University Artie. This place is a treasure trove of info for all things SS and woodworking. As you can see the mere mention of something as cool as CNC routing and the repartee begins ! Welcome to our addiction.
Paul

[charlese]

Hi, Artie! Just wanted to welcome you to the forum. You have been given lots of advice already, but I also wish to side in with reible. (about your third or fourth answer) He is an old very experienced hand who knows a lot about Shopsmiths.

P.S. If I wanted to make 50 to 100 cribbage boards, I'd make them with my Shopsmith.

[artman60]

Thank you again everyone for the replies. Hvac replacement is getting scheduled for early December, and depending on my friend Billy's schedule (my tile man/carpenter) I would think the bathroom remodel should be done by the end of January (this includes the doubling of the estimated time of getting everything done LOL). Starting in February I'm gonna start searching CL for Shopsmiths, close enough I can borrow a truck and go pick it up. If I find nothing I like, I'm gonna place an order with Shopsmith (doesn't seem like anyone here bought theirs new). I will be making the first few boards with just the SS, and drill press. I'll probably set up the drill press for all the holes, and leave it that way, use the SS drill press for all other drilling. I'm not retired, and do not have lots of free time, so I'll have to see how long the process is for making boards by hand (no cnc). Advantages of not having cnc is MORE money, and more square footage available in shop. It would be a nice toy to learn. I am really hoping not to wear out my welcome as I expect this to lead to lots of learning for me. I could see me taking a weeks vacation, and only coming up from the basement for food, facilities and sleep. I have already laid out adding a sub panel, relocating the computer desks, and where the work table is getting built, plus storage cabinets above, and one's on casters under the table. This is looking like my most fun winter since I was in school. Artie