What is this?

[Ed in Tampa]

Your probably thinking "Man...won't this guy give it up?".....


What I can’t agree with is the re-worded first paragraph and an implication in the last paragraph. Tensile / torsional strength of bolts and torsional strength of extractors cannot be made to exceed the physical properties of the things they are intended to do. The technology just doesn't’t exist. It’s back to physics and material properties. And tapping with a electric drill….it can be accomplished providing your controlling the variables that cause taps to break. Machine tapping is done all the time. Many machine tapping operations (drills, CNC’s etc.) only require a good quality tap, not a x100 price tap. If your interested in reading a little bit about it, go to the second and third sections of this website.

So, we either agree to disagree in text OR I’ll meet you halfway (Central Texas would be about right) and we debate verbally over coffee. All this typing is wearing me out.

To echo your opening statement Your probably thinking "Man...won't this guy give it up?".....

Let me say when the I saw the tap being used in a drill it wasn't a controlled situation. It was a lunatic sitting atop something that was head level, busily running the tap in an rather high speed single speed electric drill. Me and few other guys walked into the room realized what he was doing and hit the deck. We expected the tap to shatter at any minute sending scrapnel hurling through the computer room. It didn't! We then expected 20 destroyed holes with threads stripped. They weren't. We were totally baffled.

We examined the tap and found out where he got it. Borrowed from the space industry (long story nothing illegal). Perfectly threaded holes? LUCK

The point I was making I have had taps made by well known companies snap. Probably user error I will readily admit it. However the tap used above would not snap, well let put it this way about 5 of us abused thing and lost interest and none of us were able to snap it. We actually ruined a pair of pliers trying to snap it.

[mickyd]

I don't grind very many chainsaw chains anymore.......

I made an information sheet with basic explanations and some stolen sketches and one went out with each sharpened chain. Probably one of the best things I ever did... We started getting bars in to be squared and leveled and guys asking to have their depth gauges ground. We got a lot of discussion out of customers that discovered stuff that was usually not in the saw manual.

Excellent point farmer. When someone is doing something incorrectly, many times they don't know better.

My neighbor was cutting down his 3 palm trees. Palms are like cutting through sandpaper and dull the chain quickly. Twice I noticed him replacing the chain with a new chain right out of the package. A couple weeks later I asked him if he sharpened with a hand file or on a machine. He said neither....he throws them away. He didn't know they could be sharpened. When ones know they can be sharpened, the first tendency is to think "well that wasn't very bright". Actually, I felt bad for him because he's not very technically inclined yet he at least tackled the huge project. He'll know next time. Haven't all of us at some point reflected back on those ignorant mistakes we've made and laughed / cried.

[mickyd]

To echo your opening statement Your probably thinking "Man...won't this guy give it up?".....

FYI - rarely would I think that. I love discussions as long as they don't start going nasty. They go south and I'm bailing. Not worth the blood pressure rise.

Now go out find me a good instruction on effective use of screw extractors that includes manufactureres max recommended torque!!

[Ed in Tampa]

FYI - rarely would I think that. I love discussions as long as they don't start going nasty. They go south and I'm bailing. Not worth the blood pressure rise.

Now go out find me a good instruction on effective use of screw extractors that includes manufactureres max recommended torque!!

Mickyd
Your point is well taken there isn't an instruction manual with max recommended torgue. Why? Cost!
First extractors sale without them.
Two when they break the customer blames himself and buys another.
Three printing instructions cost money.
Four company would open itself to lawsuits should the tool fail at less then their documented max.
My point is cost, profits, making money is why all this doesn't exist.
Cost is also why extractors break, if it weren't they would build "nearly" unbreakable ones.

[mckenziedt]

Mickyd
Your point is well taken there isn't an instruction manual with max recommended torgue. Why? Cost!
First extractors sale without them.
Two when they break the customer blames himself and buys another.
Three printing instructions cost money.
Four company would open itself to lawsuits should the tool fail at less then their documented max.
My point is cost, profits, making money is why all this doesn't exist.
Cost is also why extractors break, if it weren't they would build "nearly" unbreakable ones.

The less you know about them, the more you will break; the more you break, the more you buy; the more you buy, the more money they make.
But I'm sure they do package them with full specs and documentation in 1" thick booklets. They then sell these sets by tender to the Navy for $683.47.
DTM

[mickyd]

Mickyd
Your point is well taken there isn't an instruction manual with max recommended torque. Why? Cost!
First extractors sale without them.
Two when they break the customer blames himself and buys another.
Three printing instructions cost money.
Four company would open itself to lawsuits should the tool fail at less then their documented max.
My point is cost, profits, making money is why all this doesn't exist.
Cost is also why extractors break, if it weren't they would build "nearly" unbreakable ones.

Dear Mr. Ed,

I was wondering what your position might be regarding cost as a factor leading extractor companies to make particular decisions regarding their products? You haven't really voiced your opinion on the matter and I was interested in getting your input.

Please advise.

Sincerely,
mickyd

p.s. I am very pleased to see that you are slowly relaxing your position regarding an extractors ability to break. It shows that you are a man of deep thought, integrity, and honestly.....one who realizes when they have overstated their position. If we could now only quantify your term 'nearly' unbreakable, we would be narrowing down the allusive attribute of maximum recommend torque.

[Ed in Tampa]

Dear Mr. Ed,

I was wondering what your position might be regarding cost as a factor leading extractor companies to make particular decisions regarding their products? You haven't really voiced your opinion on the matter and I was interested in getting your input.

Please advise.

Sincerely,
mickyd

p.s. I am very pleased to see that you are slowly relaxing your position regarding an extractors ability to break. It shows that you are a man of deep thought, integrity, and honestly.....one who realizes when they have overstated their position. If we could now only quantify your term 'nearly' unbreakable, we would be narrowing down the allusive attribute of maximum recommend torque.

Mickyd
Let me address you PS first.
Actually my position has never changed, I changed to the word "nearly" because you kept missing the important caveat I have always included, "before the material the extractor was used in would itself be destroyed." I never said an extractor could be built to be "unbreakable."

As to you comment.
I think you know my position and now you are just joshing me.
But if your serious I will gladly state it again. Once you are on a soapbox the only way is down.