planning joints

[wgander]

Do you have a system for planning joints? (I don't.)
I plan the dimensions of whatever I'm building and start cutting; when I get to assembly, I realize that I'm headed for butt joints. Then, I either live with it, or change the dimensions to allow for rabbets and/or dados.
So, what steps do you take to determine the type of joint to use and the dimensions of individual pieces to produce the desired finished dimensions?

[dusty]

[quote="wgander"]Do you have a system for planning joints? (I don't.)
I plan the dimensions of whatever I'm building and start cutting]

I have still not become real proficient with Sketchup but I have developed my skills enough to do rough layouts using it. This approach may help you avoid creating scrap. It certainly has helped me.

[8iowa]

I've always been proficent at the drawing board and with a sketch pad. On my sketch pad I'll usually devote two or three pages to a project with "blow ups" of critical joints. I fully dimension my sketches. This helps to reduce cutting errors. This works for me and I can't see the need to devote the time to learning how to use sketchup. The handy advantage of a sketch pad is that it can move around the shop with you as an instant reference.

There is nothing inherently wrong with butt joints. I often use this type of joint with biscuits or wood screws. A plug cut from the same material, and glued on top of a countersunk wood screw, is a good way to make the screw hole almost invisible.

I haven't "warmed up" to Kreg's pocket hole jig, in fact I gave my pocket hole set to my son-in-law. I prefer to use lap joints. mortise/tennons, and the above mentioned biscuits and wood screws.

[michaeltoc]

I've always been proficent at the drawing board and with a sketch pad. On my sketch pad I'll usually devote two or three pages to a project with "blow ups" of critical joints. I fully dimension my sketches. This helps to reduce cutting errors. This works for me and I can't see the need to devote the time to learning how to use sketchup. The handy advantage of a sketch pad is that it can move around the shop with you as an instant reference.

Same here.

[wgander]

for the replies.
I downloaded Sketchup and started viewing the tutorials...but couldn't see what this software would do that I couldn't do with a pencil.
So, I guess I'll just have to learn to make it a habit to design the joints before I start cutting.
I usually draw what I want to build, note the overall dimensions, select the wood and lay out my cut marks. And then I realaize that I didn't allow for laps/dadoes and have to stick with butt joints or change the dimensions.

[tnerb]

I use Sketchup for all my plans. Problem is, some of my plans are months apart and I have to relearn Sketchup. I've found that it's easier to correct mistakes in Sketchup than on expensive wood.

I found a real good tutorial site. He sure makes it fairly easy and straightforward. Plus you can download free plugins like 'cutlist' that'll make a cutlist off your Sketchup drawing.

http://www.srww.com/blog/?p=1335

[paulmcohen]

[quote="wgander"]Do you have a system for planning joints? (I don't.)
I plan the dimensions of whatever I'm building and start cutting]

I use SketchUp and have found it has saved my butt more than once. I just started using Kreg Screws for a lot of joints and typical plans don't use them. So now I lay out the design in SketchUp and use it to put in the Kreg joints. This reduces errors for me.

SketchUp is free and interfaces to CutList which makes cutting quick and efficient. SketchUp has loads of free videos including several by Kreg explaining how to use the two together. I also purchased Google SketchUp The Missing Manual which has a focus on woodworking.

[berry]

for the replies.
I downloaded Sketchup and started viewing the tutorials...but couldn't see what this software would do that I couldn't do with a pencil.
So, I guess I'll just have to learn to make it a habit to design the joints before I start cutting.
I usually draw what I want to build, note the overall dimensions, select the wood and lay out my cut marks. And then I realaize that I didn't allow for laps/dadoes and have to stick with butt joints or change the dimensions.

I've always been a paper and pencil planner. But there are advantages to Sketchup and I'm learning Sketchup it. (I tried learning Turbo CAD years ago and gave up. Sketchup if much easier.)

1. Your design is 3D. So you can see all sides of it 'orbiting' around your work.
2. It's easy to email to a friend (either to be viewed or to be modified and returned).
3. Personally I think design changes/modifications are much easier with Sketchup that the old P&P method. (The earaser is so much easier to use and I never "tear the drawing".)
4. The x-ray is great to see those joints you created and how the project goes together.
5. You can download a model from the warehouse and integrate into your design. (I needed a pull for a cabinet door I'm creating. I've bought the hardware but I didn't want to spend time drawing it. So I used a model that approximated the one I'm using in a couple minutes.)
6. I've never done this but you can photograph a piece of furniture, import and then use Sketchup to help you copy.
7. If you don't print out shop drawings, it's less expensive than P&P.
8. I personally think it's easier to file/store my designs/plans away on the computer than those bulky drawings I've created. (I have lots of drawings from my kitchen project and they are all thumb tacked to a wall in the shop because I don't want to fold them.)

There is no question than P&P is faster and easier out of the gate, but long-term I think Google Sketchup has a load of advantages. And my goodness it's FREE! But there needs to be a real commitment to learning how to use it.

[paulmcohen]

I actually disagree pencil and paper is faster, I just finishing designing some walls for an art gallery. I download a wall component, imported OSB photo from Google images and downloaded a drywall component to put over the OSB.

The wall was layed out, covered with OSB, covered with drywall and painter is under 15 minutes. The result was exported to "Cutlist" and I had a shopping list in less than a minute. Except for Cutlist Gold (which I already own and has a free version) everything was free.

I know exactly where every stud goes and I can show the gallery owners (my wife and her partners) exactly what it will look like including colors and how I plan on supporting the art and how we are going to do the trim.

[charlese]

Do you have a system for planning joints? (I don't.)
I plan the dimensions of whatever I'm building and start cutting]So, what steps do you take to determine the type of joint to use and the dimensions of individual pieces to produce the desired finished dimensions[/U]?

I can recommend two fixes to this problem that do not involve either pencil drawings or computerized. Although, the previous post by paulmcohen has real merit when you need to show others what you are planning to build.

I intended to try to answer your question a couple days ago, but did not find the time. Now finally -----

First fix - cut ALL pieces longer than needed by at least an inch or so. As you assemble your carcass you will find enough extra wood to make the joints you need.

Second fix - during dry assembly, if you find piece(s) is too short - decrease the size of the whole unit enough to make your needed joints. This may sound like a weird fix, but if you use story sticks rather than a ruler it will all work out. Using tape measures or rulers throughout a project is one way to almost insure errors. Using sticks for measurement and "fitting" parts gives a closer fit.

No one will ever notice that your project is 1/2" smaller than intended unless it has to fit into a confined space.