Rockler "Thin Rip Tablesaw Jig"

terrydowning · Post by **terrydowning** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:39 pm

First off! I apologize for the threadjack! never my intention. Back to the topic at hand. The device posted/questioned by the OP looks like a decent product and since it can be used on multiple tools, probably not a bad purchase idea.

Now let me clear things up. I really didn't mean to start this debate. Just throwing out personal observations.

I never said I was ditching my Table Saw altogether, and certainly not my Shopsmith and absolutely not my power tools. Just looking at ways to reduce usage of "My Particular Table Saw setup" (Stock Mark 5 from 1955 that has never had an upgrade in it's life other than the crummy model 500 guards that I seldom use since they are actually less effective and at times less safe than doing without). I've looked into doing a 510 upgrade and just can't stomach the cost even for used.

I totally agree that there is risk in life, but not taking active steps to mitigate known risks is foolhardy. I have known and well documented safety concerns with MY table saw setupnamely size, lack of riving knife, imprecise and finicky fence, "upgrade" splitter that is prone to vibrating loose and altering alignment during use, anti-kick pawls that won't keep things from kicking back (What's the point??) both splitter and pawls are so far away from the end of the blade to render them practically useles anyways, and I'm sure lots of other things as well. And since this is a fairly common configuration among Shopsmith owners(not everyone has a 510/520 or the bucks to upgrade. In my case it's a lack of willingness to spend the money on the upgrade) I am taking steps to mitigate my known risk.

Step 1 Don't use the unsafe table saw configuration as much, there are alternative methods to cutting something that are as safe or safer than the common table saw. Many people are not aware of alternatives, just thought I'd share.

I'll come up with other steps to ensure my safety and mitigate my known risk as I see fit.

heathicus · Post by **heathicus** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:10 pm

terrydowning wrote: Bottom line if you feel unsafe performing an operation, it probably is unsafe and you should not be doing it. If you feel safe doing something, then by all means, have at it. It really is a personal judgement call.

That is sort of where I'm coming from with my questions. I've never felt unsafe using a push block with a heel on it. I can't figure out why that would be more unsafe than this jig. The push block holds the stock down on the table, and the heel blocks it from being pushed backward. And if you stand out of the plane of the blade that is safety on top of safety. How am I wrong? I want to correct it if I am, but I don't understand how I am.

The point that was raised about this jig helping to prevent burning on the stock as it passes the back of the blade I fully understand.

terrydowning · Post by **terrydowning** » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:28 pm

Just make sure the block is all the way against the fence. ( the same caveat can be said for this jig, but since it applies pressure and pushes the stock into the fence similar to a feather board, it's much less likely to occur)

You may also want to consider a sacrificial fence along the blade when cutting thin strips.

This is what happened to me once several years ago. I was cutting 1/8" strips and I did not keep the push block against the fence (complacency and inattention) I inadvertently twisted the block in mid cut, fortunately my hand was thrown clear along with the block. Ruined work, bent blade, nicked fence as the bending blade caught the fence. I was very lucky and have not used push blocks on the table saw since (it's a fear thing).

If you are using the push block safely and are confident with it, have at it. I do use a heeled push block on my jointer, just not the TS.

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:21 am

edflorence wrote:I am as big a fan of working safely as anybody on this forum, yet I find myself compelled to say a few words in defense of the table saw. I agree that ts injuries can happen in the blink of an eye and the results can be extremely nasty, but the same can be said of missing a step while coming down a flight of stairs. Life is full of potentials for this sort of stuff. Is that enough reason to quit using stairs? Probably not. Is it enough reason to quit using a table saw?

Ed
Not to be argumentative (did Ed in Tampa really say that?) but your stair analogy is wanting. There really isn't a practical alternative to stairs. Sure you can get an escalator or an elevator but both are way beyond the price range of most of us.

However for the tablesaw there are better, safer and actually cheaper ways to cut wood.

I know most US home hobbiest will be saying I will give up my tablesaw or in the case of the forum my Shopsmith when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

But the fact remains there are ways to cut wood that equal or better the cut quality of a tablesaw and they do this while having no potential for kickback, require less physical space and less physical energy to make the cut. The operators hands are far removed from the cut area and reportedly dust collection approaches 95%+

But they require us to rethink our shop and hobby.

I know some people get off showing pictures of the their shop with their big big shiney tablesaw or Shopsmith sitting proudly in the middle of it all. I realize the picture doesn’t look as impressive when there is a bandsaw or perhaps a guide tools system type tools sitting there instead. I mean what is going to wow the boys more 1000lbs of polished steel and cast iron or a lowly bandsaw or circular saw and a aluminum track?

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:31 am

dusty wrote:My offer to accept your power tools (especially your dangerous Shopsmith) free gratis still stands. Just let me know and I'll give you a shipping address.

Dusty
Thanks for the offer but I don't think I ever said or even suggestted anyone should get rid of their Shopsmith. I use mine for a lot more than cutting wood. In fact lately the percentage of total Shopsmith usage time spent cutting wood has fallen sharply. And as I keep finding ways to cut wood which is easier and safer I expect this time to fall even more.

For instance I rarely if ever use my dado blades, and if the cut can't be made with blade guard in place I immediately try to figure another way to make the cut. I'm finding many other ways to make cuts that I once made only on the tablesaw. What amazes me the most is most of the ways are easier, equal or exceeding in quality and in my opinion much safer. So for me it is a win win situation.

Sorry but that is what I'm finding.

edflorence · Post by **edflorence** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:19 pm

Ed in Tampa wrote: Ed

Not to be argumentative (did Ed in Tampa really say that?) but your stair analogy is wanting. There really isn't a practical alternative to stairs. Sure you can get an escalator or an elevator but both are way beyond the price range of most of us.

However for the tablesaw there are better, safer and actually cheaper ways to cut wood.

Ed- Point well taken and I agree. The stairs analogy wasn't one of my best. You are correct that there are many practical and accesible alternatives to cutting wood with a table saw. Since this woodworking stuff is for most of us on this forum a matter of pleasure and not a matter of livelihood, the choice of how to pursue that pleasure is part of the game.

No worries about being "argumentative". How much fun would discussions be if all parties thought the same?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:28 pm

FWIW I do not purchase/acquire tools for their ability to 'wow' the boys! The tasks possible with them are the main consideration.

I do not need a half ton of shiney CI SS etc. sitting in my shop.

I would be curious as to what all those ts alternatives are(detailed description of equipment and procedures and time comparison to ts).
Back up all that nebulous inferring with cold hard facts.

Please!:)

Ed in Tampa · Post by **Ed in Tampa** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:02 am

[quote="JPG40504"]FWIW I do not purchase/acquire tools for their ability to 'wow' the boys! The tasks possible with them are the main consideration.

I do not need a half ton of shiney CI SS etc. sitting in my shop.

I would be curious as to what all those ts alternatives are(detailed description of equipment and procedures and time comparison to ts).
Back up all that nebulous inferring with cold hard facts.]

One way is the guided tools system. I haven't done the research but the manufacture of the guided tools systems have. Go to their websites and watch their videos. One even uses a stop watch and count the number of cuts FestoolUsa.com and Eurekazone.com

As I usderstand it most of Europe uses the bandsaw and again there is a ton of youtube videos showing this. Youtube.com search bandsaws.

CNC machines is another way and for simple ripping could not be much faster.
Do a google search and go to the manufactures website or to youtube search cutting wood on CNC machine.

Then there are Radial Arm saws, powered miter saws, hand saws, panel saws, cutting attachments for machines like those moulder/planners.

There are literally tons of methods for cutting wood where the hands don't come near the blade and the cutting implement remains in full sight at all times.

Frankly for cutting tapers and such I'm convinced the guided tools system is the best. Just lay the guide on the wood angled the way you want the taper and cut. No jig, no adjustment, just cut.

Precision (ultra) panel saws are comming down in price and some claim .001 accuracy over the length of the machine. Crosscuting and ripping is almost a no brainer. Place the wood on the grid and move the saw in the direction you want to cut. I once cut (ripped and crosscut) fence boards on one and I was able to stay ahead of the guy nailing them down. We started with 18 foot 1x12's. I cut 6 foot 1x6's and used a Power miter saw to dogear them.
Panel saw used air compressor to power the hold down and to shift supports depending where the saw was moved. It would not allow you to cut a support either vertically or horizonally.

Stack the boards in the machine with edge on bottom and one end against the stop, move the saw to place on the scale you wanted and start cutting.
Fast and totally accurate even on warped and cupped boards. I didn't time it but my guess about twice as fast as doing the same job on a 5hp Unisaw and lot easier I didn't have to jockey the boards at all.

easterngray · Post by **easterngray** » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:38 pm

Here's a picture of the Incra Jig I mentioned in a earlier post, set up for thin strips.
The strips in this pic are 1/16th of an inch each, exactly. These are sycamore laminations for a small landing net. Alec

claimdude · Post by **claimdude** » Wed May 02, 2012 9:12 pm

[quote="edflorence"]Hi Jack]

Ed,

I picked up one of these today and checked it on my 520 and the bar is too large to fit in the miter slot. Maybe they have changed the design since you bought yours?

Anyway, I am going to machine the bar down a bit and it should work fine.

Jack