I am new to building cabinets, and new to the Shopsmith as well. I don't have a drill press set up, I'm only going to be using the SS as a table saw for right now.
Here are my questions:
1. Is the Kreg Pocket Hole jig really necessary? Why can't I simply use wood glue and my nail gun to put the face framing onto built-in cabinets? Do I *have to* use pocket holes?
2. If pocket holes are necessary, is there any way to do it without a Kreg? Because that system requires you to use their screws only, and I'm never a fan of a tool that traps you into only using one manufacturer's products.
I searched this forum and saw previous discussions on Kreg products but I'm trying to decide if I must invest in this tool in order to make built-in cabinets and shelves.
Opinions on the Kreg Pocket Hole Jig
Moderator: admin
I don't know that you have to use Kreg screws. There are several places that sell pocket hole screws McFeely's is one. Here is their link
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
You might be able to find that they are sold locally also.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/
You might be able to find that they are sold locally also.
Bob
Don't try to make sense out of nonsense!
Don't try to make sense out of nonsense!
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wannabewoodworker
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 626
- Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:36 am
- Location: Milford, CT
Lowes carries a full line of third party pocket hole screws now in quantity. The big advantage of the pocket hole screw joinery is that you get instant gratification i.e. you don't have to wait for glue to cure. But if you want to really make your project strong add some glue to those pocket hole joints and they will never break.
Michael Mayo
Senior IT Support Engineer
Soft Designs Inc.
albiemanmike@gmail.com
1960's SS Mark VII, 1954 Greenie, 1983 Mark V, Jointer, Bandsaw, Jigsaw, Dewalt Slider, Delta Super 10, Delta 8" Grinder, Craftsman compressor, Drill Doctor, Kreg PH Jig, Bosch Jigsaw, Craftsman Router and Table...........and adding more all the time....
Senior IT Support Engineer
Soft Designs Inc.
albiemanmike@gmail.com
1960's SS Mark VII, 1954 Greenie, 1983 Mark V, Jointer, Bandsaw, Jigsaw, Dewalt Slider, Delta Super 10, Delta 8" Grinder, Craftsman compressor, Drill Doctor, Kreg PH Jig, Bosch Jigsaw, Craftsman Router and Table...........and adding more all the time....
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robinson46176
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:00 pm
- Location: Central Indiana (Shelbyville)
We had an old family friend that had a cabinet business most of his life up through the early 1950's. His son in law worked for him until the shop closed. His son-in-law built the face frames for the cabinets I grew up with. They were in excellent shape when we removed them during a major remodel/build on. He used only glue and finishing nails and not a lot of glue as I recall.
I always get a bit of a kick when in regards to all manner of things from farm stuff to woodworking etc. etc. people will jump out of the woodwork to tell someone that something will not work. Somehow they never think about the fact that what they say will not work was done in the manner that "will not work" for hundreds of years.
Yes we do have "better and easier" methods available to us and I tend to embrace them but the old ways worked OK too.
What is missing from your Shopsmith that keeps you from using drill-press mode? All I can think of is maybe the Jacobs chuck? The Shopsmith excels in drilling pocket holes.
BTW, I do have a simple single Kreg pocket hole kit and the Kreg Jr. two hole kit. I expect to add the larger kit later this year. I also have a flat Kreg clamp and a right angle clamp. All of the kerg stuff I have ever used is excellent. I love the Kreg screws and I am prone to use them on all sorts of things where the surface head is not a problem like utility items and jigs.
The single hole kit would probably serve you well for very little $$$ The 2 hole kit is really nice but was a want instead of a need for me.
Why do I have the Kreg stuff when I have all of the Shopsmiths? I do a lot of my woodworking in place (like the 24' travel trailer we are rebuilding) and it gets danged heavy holding a Shopsmith up over your head trying to drill pocket holes.
I also have a biscuit-joiner and a lot of cabinet guys prefer those.
I would tend to agree with mrhart that a screw is better plus any nailed face frames I ever saw had been finish nailed through the face and then the hole puttied. Not so when pocket holed from the back.
Good luck.
.
I always get a bit of a kick when in regards to all manner of things from farm stuff to woodworking etc. etc. people will jump out of the woodwork to tell someone that something will not work. Somehow they never think about the fact that what they say will not work was done in the manner that "will not work" for hundreds of years.
Yes we do have "better and easier" methods available to us and I tend to embrace them but the old ways worked OK too.
What is missing from your Shopsmith that keeps you from using drill-press mode? All I can think of is maybe the Jacobs chuck? The Shopsmith excels in drilling pocket holes.
BTW, I do have a simple single Kreg pocket hole kit and the Kreg Jr. two hole kit. I expect to add the larger kit later this year. I also have a flat Kreg clamp and a right angle clamp. All of the kerg stuff I have ever used is excellent. I love the Kreg screws and I am prone to use them on all sorts of things where the surface head is not a problem like utility items and jigs.
The single hole kit would probably serve you well for very little $$$ The 2 hole kit is really nice but was a want instead of a need for me.
Why do I have the Kreg stuff when I have all of the Shopsmiths? I do a lot of my woodworking in place (like the 24' travel trailer we are rebuilding) and it gets danged heavy holding a Shopsmith up over your head trying to drill pocket holes.
I also have a biscuit-joiner and a lot of cabinet guys prefer those.
I would tend to agree with mrhart that a screw is better plus any nailed face frames I ever saw had been finish nailed through the face and then the hole puttied. Not so when pocket holed from the back.
Good luck.
.
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farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
Thanks guys, I didn't know that I could buy other screws that would fit the Kreg.
I am considering the Kreg jr because it's cheaper and I think it will handle what I want to do.
As to the SS drilling pocket holes -- I figured it would be a crazy amount of break down and set up and that I should just use my drill. Maybe I am wrong about that.
I am considering the Kreg jr because it's cheaper and I think it will handle what I want to do.
As to the SS drilling pocket holes -- I figured it would be a crazy amount of break down and set up and that I should just use my drill. Maybe I am wrong about that.
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robinson46176
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:00 pm
- Location: Central Indiana (Shelbyville)
missfixit wrote:Thanks guys, I didn't know that I could buy other screws that would fit the Kreg.
I am considering the Kreg jr because it's cheaper and I think it will handle what I want to do.
As to the SS drilling pocket holes -- I figured it would be a crazy amount of break down and set up and that I should just use my drill. Maybe I am wrong about that.
I must admit to not doing much pocket hole drilling on my SS. I just grab my Kreg stuff because it is so handy.
.
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
I have some limited experience with the Kreg pocket screw systems. A friend gave me a Mini:
http://www.kregtool.com/Kreg-Jigreg-Mini-Prodview.html
It is very handy to get into tight spots.
I tried getting by using a f-style clamp to hold the Mini in place and had very poor luck getting it lined up exactly where I wanted it. So I picked up one of the Kreg 3" face clamps. It made all the difference in the world.
http://www.kregtool.com/Kreg-Jigreg-Mini-Prodview.html
They also have a 6" version if more reach is needed:
http://www.kregtool.com/Large-Face-Clam ... dview.html
One big advantage pocket screws give is that you don't have to wait for glue to set up before you move clamps to the next step....a real time saver in building cabinets.
A disadvantage is for locations where the pocket is visible. Even with the plugs you can get..... Sometimes a brad and a little putty is the lesser of evils.
http://www.kregtool.com/Kreg-Jigreg-Mini-Prodview.html
It is very handy to get into tight spots.
I tried getting by using a f-style clamp to hold the Mini in place and had very poor luck getting it lined up exactly where I wanted it. So I picked up one of the Kreg 3" face clamps. It made all the difference in the world.
http://www.kregtool.com/Kreg-Jigreg-Mini-Prodview.html
They also have a 6" version if more reach is needed:
http://www.kregtool.com/Large-Face-Clam ... dview.html
One big advantage pocket screws give is that you don't have to wait for glue to set up before you move clamps to the next step....a real time saver in building cabinets.
A disadvantage is for locations where the pocket is visible. Even with the plugs you can get..... Sometimes a brad and a little putty is the lesser of evils.
Bud F.
1998 Mark V 510 bought used 2006, Jointer, 2 Bandsaws, ca 1960 Yuba SawSmith RAS
Projects and "stuff": http://www.bfulgham.com/JAlbum/Woodworking_Index/
1998 Mark V 510 bought used 2006, Jointer, 2 Bandsaws, ca 1960 Yuba SawSmith RAS
Projects and "stuff": http://www.bfulgham.com/JAlbum/Woodworking_Index/
To your original question, the Kreg is essentially a device for connecting the stiles and rails of your face frames together, and for that it does a decent job. Attaching the face frame to the cabinet carcass is another matter and, although it can be done with a Kreg, glue and nails will do the job with a lot less expense and time. Moreover, if your cabinet sides are exposed, you wouldn't want all those screw pocket holes showing. While they do make plugs to fill those holes, it's not exactly pretty. With the glue and nails, you'll have to fill the resulting nail holes. If you use biscuits to attach the face frame to the cabinet, there are no holes to fill. Biscuits also can be used to attach the stiles and rails together.
Art in Western Pennsylvania