Page 1 of 1

Finishing a table

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:18 pm
by wrmnfzy
First let me start by saying I love wood working I hate finishing. I am making an end table for the master to match some existing furniture. The furniture was custom made (not by me) and has a black paint finish, no sheen. My table with cabriole legs is made out of poplar (since I'm painting). I have no room for a good spray paint finish. Now the question; is there a black stain/dye that can be hand rubbed that would look the same and avoid brush marks? Also, any problem then hand applying a clear over this for protection. As I said I'm a novice at finishing. Any help would be appreciated.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:07 pm
by holsgo
If you are trying to match paint then that's a different animal than black stain. The black can be achieved by India ink. There are black stains as well but India ink has been my preferred choice. Now, low sheen...first is to seal the table. My method for this has actually been a number of coats of gloss poly allowing each to cure. Then I control the sheen via sanding starting at 320 or 400 up to the high grits. If you are scared of this method then use the ready made formulas of mat, satin etc. Next option is to use an oil finish, linseed oil for example. Use the first coat, applied with a rag or paper towel and allow it to fully soak and dry. Then follow with subsequent coats allowing each to dry. Lastly rub the whole piece with paste wax and then buff, just like a car.
Like I said first, a painted table is a whole different look then a black stained table. These steps are a bit of a short description and my description will seem easier then it will be as you do it, but practice makes perfect so give one of them a try and we can help walk you through.

Unfortunately yes

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:03 pm
by wrmnfzy
Yes, the master would not be happy if I don't come close to a match. Will the grain still show through the ink (when I was a kid, many years ago I remember guys in the area giving themselves homemade body art (PC) with India Ink). Is it feasible to hand rub paint and come out with a decent finish? I will try the others on some scraps but don't think the master will accept. I have used oil finishes in the past (usually Watco) with reasonable success.

Thanks for the things to ponder.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:47 pm
by pennview
You can thin oil-based enamel with mineral spirits to make something akin to stain and then apply it with a rag or brush and then wipe off the excess, just as you would do with any other stain. And you could top coat that with polyurethane, including some of the wipe on poly. Stir the enamel well and measure carefully when mixing with paint thinner so that you can reproduce the same mixture/ratio should it meet your needs after testing on scraps. Minwax makes an ebony stain if you want to go that route. Overall though, it's quite hard to match finishes especially if someone else did the original piece.

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:57 pm
by holsgo
First, India ink gives a black black. It was used 200 years ago to die pieces and has been used since. But like I said it is a stain, it will allow the grain to show hrough. Pennview suggests a thinning technique that will also allow the grain to show. Water based finished will raise the grain...allow it to show unless you sand a second time. Oil finished do not raise the grain.
Bottom line, if you are trying to match a painted piece then paint it. Sand the piece up to 320 or higher. Then use oil based paint in a sprayer. You can use a gloss. If you don't have a sprayer then use a fine brush and overlap. Mix with mineral spirits to keep the paint open. Mix with acetone to close ( or allow to dry faster). After you have put on a couple coats use fine steel wool or rubbing compound to bring the sheen down. Or simply use a mat or semi gloss paint.
There are more techniques but that should give you something to do a few test pieces with...use pen views technique as a test as well. When you decide on what you are going to go with post some pics.

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:10 am
by JPG
flat black paint?

Thx

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:18 am
by wrmnfzy
Thanks everyone, I'm about a weekend away from the finishing point (maybe optimistic) and I will post some before and after photos. I will test try all the procedures and see what comes closest. Once again, thanks everyone.

I still hate finishing, but it is a necessary evil.

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:11 pm
by berry
When I try to match an existing project I cut a fairly large piece of the stock (3-4'), divide it into 3" sections with painters tape and try different ideas. I then take the one closest to to desired result and turn the stock over and try variations on the one that worked best - extra coats, wiping vs. brushing, thinning, buffing, buffing with 0000 steel wool, spray on lacquer. Then I let the 'customer' see if they like one. Nothing works like trial and error. If you do this be sure to keep a record of what you did in each section so you can replicate the finish if one works.

For black I use General Finishes Gel Stain (Java). To avoid grain showing through the color I seal the wood with coats of shellac, sanding lightly between coats. Others like to use a real 'Sealer'.

Good luck and be sure to post pics when you finish. (no pun intended)

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:08 am
by wrmnfzy
Thanks, as I thought began sanding this weekend and further from completion than I thought. It was 95 this weekend, even with the fans in the shop it was brutal. Still see the light at the end of the tunnel, hope its not a train.

Making the drawer maybe tonight. All left after that is final assembly and more sanding, then finishing.

General Finishes

Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:12 pm
by wrmnfzy
I contacted General Finishes Customer Services by email with a couple questions, much to my surprise they responded within an hour answering my questions and giving some suggestions. Now that's customer service and I hadn't even bought anything yet. I have now.:D