Shopsmith Forums

Hello all, Tom here from Green Bay...

I just purchased a 1954 Mark 5 unit today (s/n 265010), from a fellow on Craigslist. It looks to be in pretty good shape, but definitely needs some TLC. The price was pretty good, so I plan to restore it this Winter. I've been going through the various FAQ and stickies here on restoration and maintenance, and WOW...is there a lot of information! Excellent!

I thought I would introduce myself and say hello, and also ask for advice as to any upgrades that folks might recommend? I have just the basic unit, without any add-on tools. I've looked through the eBay section on SS units, but don't really want to buy anything until I get more familiar with my unit. I saw the unit today on Craigslist and really only was a bit curious as I had thought about buying one on and off for a couple years--so I went to look at it. But it looked so unbelievably cool, that I ended up bringing it home!

Anyway, we are just finishing up a 12x22' heated shop project in our garage, so I'll definitely have a place to restore the unit this Winter. I really don't want to use it much until I've gone through it thoroughly and found any unknown issues. Hence I wondered whether or not I should plan to simply replace/upgrade any parts while I'm at it? I definitely need to clean some rust off a few areas, and then buy a safety guard for the table saw. I also want to acquire a band saw unit for it, as well as a belt sander add-on as well. And so it begins, lol...

Thanks in advance for any advice or recommendations you folks might offer.

TB

Link to reply to response in 'deleted' duplicate thread.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=132368&postcount=2

Thanks for the reply...

I am not sure which head stock I have, to be honest. I'm still going through the PDFs I downloaded from the maintenance and restoration sticky. Is there a quick way to tell? I also see the Nick Engler DVDs listed on SS's website (including the one on restoration of older machines), so I think I'll be buying a couple of those.

Going through all of this stuff, I've been wondering if it was a smart move to buy an older unit? Maybe I should have just bought a 1990-era unit to begin with...lol. I do enjoy restoration projects, but I realize that you can pretty easily put more into a machine than it's worth should you try to sell it. That being sad though, there didn't seem to be much wrong with this unit when the seller demonstrated it for me--so hopefully it won't need anything more than a good cleaning, some TLC and some elbow grease.


EDIT: Forgot to say that I have a right-angle die-grinder with some Scotch-brite "rotoloc" pads, and those work very nicely to clean up rust. I've used the Naval Jelly in the past, and it seems to work well also.

tcbetka wrote:Thanks for the reply...

I am not sure which head stock I have, to be honest. I'm still going through the PDFs I downloaded from the maintenance and restoration sticky. Is there a quick way to tell? I also see the Nick Engler DVDs listed on SS's website (including the one on restoration of older machines), so I think I'll be buying a couple of those.

Going through all of this stuff, I've been wondering if it was a smart move to buy an older unit? Maybe I should have just bought a 1990-era unit to begin with...lol. I do enjoy restoration projects, but I realize that you can pretty easily put more into a machine than it's worth should you try to sell it. That being sad though, there didn't seem to be much wrong with this unit when the seller demonstrated it for me--so hopefully it won't need anything more than a good cleaning, some TLC and some elbow grease.


EDIT: Forgot to say that I have a right-angle die-grinder with some Scotch-brite "rotoloc" pads, and those work very nicely to clean up rust. I've used the Naval Jelly in the past, and it seems to work well also.

Look under the power switch. If that area is part of the casting, it is a "B". If that area has a steel part with an arrow embossed into it, then it is an "A".

Abrasive pads and navel jelly(acid) eat into good steel.

Whether it was a 'mistake', only you can judge that. However you have acquired a good starting point. If you decide to go newer later, you will not regret having this one in addition to the newer one.

I believe it's an 'A' head stock. I've taken a few pictures of my unit and uploaded them to Photobucket, here:

http://s78.beta.photobucket.com/user/tcbetka/library/Shopsmith

Also, I have found several references to EvapoRust from Harbor Freight. As luck would have it, there's a HF store about 3 miles from my house, so I'll be trying that when the time comes. Great tip, before going to mechanical removal--although the scotch brite pads aren't terribly rough on the steel.

Thanks for the information.

tcbetka wrote:I believe it's an 'A' head stock. I've taken a few pictures of my unit and uploaded them to Photobucket, here:

http://s78.beta.photobucket.com/user/tcbetka/library/Shopsmith

Also, I have found several references to EvapoRust from Harbor Freight. As luck would have it, there's a HF store about 3 miles from my house, so I'll be trying that when the time comes. Great tip, before going to mechanical removal--although the scotch brite pads aren't terribly rough on the steel.

Thanks for the information.

Take a 20% off coupon to HF!

A 2" pvc pipe with end cap on one end and a screw plug on the other will hold a bench tube/way tube. A 1" capped pvc pipe will decrease the amount of evaporust needed to fill. It goes inside the tube.

You definitely have an "A" headstock.

Probably a Gilmer drive inside.

The minimal rust I see in the pix will disappear with wire brushing.

The bench tubes were originally painted.

Oiling the sheaves can be a problem since the older greenies did not include an oil hole. If you tear it down, be sure to drill them in the sheaves hub.

I'll have to head down to HF next week, indeed...

I've been reading the nice thread that user "mickyd" posted back in 2009--about the restoration of his Greenie. I haven't gotten to the end yet, but the photos on the first 4-5 pages look INCREDIBLE. Wow...what a project! I'm not sure I'll have the time to restore this thing to that level, but we'll see I guess. I'd like to actually *use* the thing at some point!

As far as what upgrades you may want to consider, my first question is what you you see as your primary uses for your SS? Do you want to use the table saw with any regularity? The 500 model table saw isn't the greatest in the world due to small table, less than ideal rip fence, and less than ideal upper and lower saw guards (if you even have any at all). All of this can be remedied - it just depends on how much you want to spend. In an ideal world you could upgrade to a 510 or 520 table system (at least I think you can do this with a 500 from this era (?), but this will run you over $1000, so I'm guessing you're not looking to jump down that road at this point. Instead, I'd recommend some more simple upgrades to the saw and if down the road you want to have the 510/520 table system, I'd recommend buying one of those used, which you should be able to find complete and in good shape for less than the cost of the 500>510/520 upgrades.

Some easy upgrades to the 500 saw setup would be the wider extension table (not only wider but it allows you to place the rip fence on the extension table and hence rip much wider boards than you could with the standard extension table. Also, I recently bought the upgraded 500 rip fence from SS and it is much nicer and smoother than the stock one. Lastly, the upgraded upper and lower saw guards are a nice (and much safer) guard set-up for the 500.

If you are planning to use the lathe, just the stock basics are fine to get going if you got them with your SS - you want to make sure you have the tool rest, face plate(s), drive center, live and/or dead center, tailstock, and turning tools.

For disc sanding, I'd recommend getting a few of the steel discs/arbors so you can have a few different grits installed and ready to swap back/forth as needed.

As far as SPT's go, just depends on your needs and desires. The following are available that will work with your machine: jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, strip sander, jigsaw and/or scroll saw, biscuit joiner, planer...what else am I forgetting? As far as these go, I was able to find the best deals via E-Bay and CraigsList on my bandsaw (usually $100-$200), jointer (usually $100-$150), and jigsaw (usually $75-$100). The belt sanders tend to go for more in the $200-$250 range in good shape and the strip sanders on E-Bay for whatever reason seem to always fetch close to the new price...which is silly to not just buy one new in that case. The planers are super nice but a bit harder to find used and usually expensive and high shipping when you do (although some folks have found some great deals on CraigsList for these...lucky dogs). Biscuit joiners tend to fetch ~$75 on E-Bay in good condition. So it will just depend on what you want to add over time. Also, you may likely (like most folks here) find yourself buying a second (or more) SS down the road and often they are bundled with some of these SPTs - when so, this is usually the best deal on picking up SPTs as SS setups consistently sell for way too cheap.

You'll want to read up on the SPTs and make sure you understand all the variations and upgrades over time so you know what you want and what you are buying. THe bandsaw, for instance, has an upgraded aluminum table now that is much nicer than the old cast iron table - you can add a rip fence and other accessories to it and otherwise it is the preferred route by most for the bandsaw. The jointers have remained pretty much unchanged over time, with the exception of the upgraded blade guard/feather board and an upgraded dust chute that are options. A bit of patience and you'll be able to find these upgraded versions for essentially the same price as the older versions (at least I was able to).

Anyway, I'd recommend starting simple and get to know your machine and decide what you primarily want to use it for and upgrade accordingly. Also, make sure to get a copy of "Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone" (ideally a copy from around the era of your machine) and read it front to back.

Good luck and ask lots of questions!

I don't plan to use the table saw every day, but it will certainly be used. So I will definitely want to improve the safety features as much as possible. The wider extension table and upgraded upper/lower saw guards would definitely be on my "sooner, rather than later" list. Thanks for those tips.

I am planning to use the lathe a fair amount. I've recently gotten into the high-powered model rocketry hobby, and plan to build my own rockets before long. By regulation the nose cone cannot be metal on high-powered model rockets and although fiberglass is a possibility, most people seem to make them out of wood. I have used a wood lathe a fair amount years ago, but will definitely need to re-learn the basics--and I don't even have a tool set for turning wood right now. I did get all the basics for using the lathe though, but I'll have to go through them all and take inventory of each along with its condition. Also, the disc sander seems to be in good shape, but getting another disc/arbor combo or two seems to be a good idea.

Excellent list of SPTs! That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll just have to determine which "version" of each is compatible with my machine. There was a Mark V unit on Craigslist a while back with the band saw, planer and (possibly) the belt sander, for about $1200-1300 as I recall. I didn't pursue it because I really didn't know much about the SS units then, and I didn't want to fork out that sort of cash for something I wasn't familiar with.

I plan to get that publication you mentioned, and also a couple of Nick's DVDs. I see no reason why the Greenie I bought couldn't be restored and upgraded like mickyd did a while back. All it would take is time, for the most part. It's a long winter here in Wisconsin, so I might just have the chance. I need to get my shop finished this week so I can move the SS in and have a place to start working on it. We are getting a 36,000 BTU Hot Dawg heater installed in about 10 days, so it should definitely be a good place to work on the machine.

Thanks again for the informative post(s)!

I have a '78 MarkV 500, so ultimately I am only familiar with what works with it but to the best of my knowledge all of the SPT's should be compatible with your Greenie as well. You will need the power coupling in order to use any of the SPT's (with the exception of the Biscuit Joiner, which mounts on the quill). The coupling is available from SS:
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/powercoupler.htm

Otherwise, certainly the joiner, the bandsaw, the jigsaw, and the belt sander at a minimum should mount right up to your Greenie as well (others who are far more familiar with the early model 500's, please clarify here if I'm incorrect on this). I don't have the scroll saw or strip sander, so can say for sure, but am guessing they would work fine as well. As I mentioned, make sure to familiarize yourself with each SPT and it's various upgrades etc. so you are sure you know what you are buying on the used market. Also, I'd advise looking for SPTs for sale that include the manual - some of these are available for download from the SS but not all of them - others are available for ~$10 from SS but make that is extra expense and time to order/receive it. Either way, I've found these manual indispensable for understanding, setting up, adjusting, and using each of the SPTs. Also, make sure any SPTs you buy include the mounting tubes - I've seen a few auctions on E-Bay where they weren't included...unpleasant surprise when it arrives and you have to order them from SS.

As far as price on these, start by understanding what they cost new from SS (with the exception of the jigsaw, which is no longer made) - there are some great deals out there on used ones for some of the SPTs but others (strip sander, scroll saw come to mind) really hold their value on the used market and in that case I'd personally much rather buy new from SS. Next, make sure to search completed auctions on E-Bay to see what the selling price has been for a given SPT and look at the condition and thoroughness of description and photos etc. I only like to buy from sellers who properly describe and document condition in their auctions and otherwise know what they are talking about - you'll see a lot of "as is" auctions where the seller found the thing in someone's garage and is trying to unload it or make a buck and they have no idea what exactly it is...red flag for me. There are a handful of regular SS sellers on E-Bay who know their stuff and they make it obvious in their descriptions.