SS Molder - steel, aluminum?? History?

[bobgroh]

I have been considering buying a SS Molder plus some blade sets for my 510. Just ran across a source who had the following factoids to throw my way:

#1: There are both aluminum (early versions) and steel (later versions) molder heads

#2: The molder blades sets are NOT interchangeable between heads. I.E. you can not use a molder blade set from a set with an aluminum molder head on a steel molder head.

OK, guys -- some questions to throw yourway:
Q1: Are there both types of heads?
Q2: If so, is one better than the other?
Q3: Are the blade sets specific to one type of molder head?

Thanks for your inputs.

[RobertTaylor]

i have had both. the aluminum model held the cutter by the head of a bolt. the steel head uses a ball under the bolt. the cutters would fit either head. craftsman cutters will not work in either head as they are too thick. i could not notice any difference in the performance of the shopsmith heads or even the craftsman for that matter. my preference is craftsman only because of greater availability of cutters and/or price. one major advantage of either of the shopsmith heads is that no arbor is needed as they will mount directly to the spindle.

[perryobear]

Hi Guys,

The Shopsmith molder head family history has a third member which I will add here for completeness. It is an aluminum head that uses the same "Ball and Bolt" mounting system as the SS steel head (and therefore the same cutter sets as the steel head).

The SS p/n for the "new" aluminum molder head was 555611. It was originally made by Shopsmith for their Sawsmith 2000 model. It made its last major appearance a couple of years ago as a SS e-mail special targeted toward Mk 5 owners. As you can see it has a larger diameter than the steel molder head and the e-mail description noted that this provides a higher surface speed at the cutters (I'm not sure how important this is, how it interacts with feed rate, etc.)

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I thought I would include this info in the thread just in case someone runs across one of these "newer" Shopsmith aluminum molder heads.

Regards,

Dennis

[JPG]

The radius if the cutter edge affects cutting speed. A larger radius results in a faster "cutting" speed for a given rpm.

The faster the cutting speed, the more likely a smooth cut will result as well as being quicker.

Cutting speed can be altered by changing rpm's OR radius.

Think of a large diameter piece on a lathe. You must slow it down to maintain proper "cutting" speed(balance issues aside).

A larger saw blade will cut faster at a given rpm.

[8iowa]

There is no "free lunch" here. Keep in mind the fact that as the radius of the molding head is increased, the torque at the blade tips will be proportionally lower. This could lead to the motor "bogging down" when taking full depth cuts, or in hard wood, or both.

[davem1066]

So if the previous owner of my Sawsmith 2000 cannot find the molder head for it, I can use the latest one sold by Shopsmith and it is identical? I do have the molder/dado insert.

I assume the standard shopsmith Dado blades work in the Sawsmith 2000.

Dave

[perryobear]

So if the previous owner of my Sawsmith 2000 cannot find the molder head for it, I can use the latest one sold by Shopsmith and it is identical? I do have the molder/dado insert.

I assume the standard shopsmith Dado blades work in the Sawsmith 2000.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Let me try and answer your questions,

1. No, you cannot use the latest Shopsmith Mk 5 molder head on your Sawsmith 2000 (SS 2K). The latest SS molder head is smaller in diameter than the SS 2K version was (see photo earlier in this thread) and you will not be able to get the cutters above the table surface using the smaller diameter molder head.

2. Do you mean that you have both a Molder Insert and a Dado Insert for your SS 2K? As you can see they are not the same.

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3. Any Dado set with a 5/8" arbor hole should work on your SS 2K. I use a Craftsman 7" Dado set on mine.

4. Of course you do need a Molder/Dado Arbor to mount it on. The SS 2K had its own Molder/Dado Arbor (I don't think they are available any longer from Shopsmith ). I have used the latest Shopsmith Molder/Dado Arbor as a Dado Arbor on my SS 2K, but I have never tried to use it as a Molder Arbor. I suspect it might be a problem since the side clearance in the table insert for the molder knives is a lot tighter. You might be able to make a custom table insert to solve that problem.

I hope this helps,

Dennis

[davem1066]

Dennis,

Thanks for the photos and post. I now realize I have the regular and dado insert and not the molder insert. I'll send the previous owner another note with a picture of that too.

Dave

[thedovetailjoint]

I know this is an ancient thread, but I am trying to locate a Sawsmith 2000 molder head to buy or borrow. Turns out these things are like hens teeth, and I have some things I’d like to share on my YouTube channel about them. It would be nice to have one in hand. Feel free to PM me. Thanks, Scott

[chapmanruss]

I have sent Scott a message.

Since this old thread has been resurrected, so to speak, I though it might be a good place to cover a bit more about the Magna/Shopsmith Molder Heads. Only 2 of the Molder Heads have been shown here previously so pictures and information about all of them may help someone.

The picture below is the 4 common Molder Heads made through the years by Magna/Yuba/Shopsmith.

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Molder Heads mounting holes.jpg (302.15 KiB) Viewed 89292 times

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They are from top left the first Magna Molder Head P/N 12 375 which came out during the Model 10 production. Top right is the Professional Model Molder Head also P/N 12 375 which replaced the original Molder Head. In the lower left is the next Molder Head P/N 505553 which is the same as the last one but with the black protective coating added to most Magna/Shopsmith accessories in 1964 along with the part number change. The lower right is the last Shopsmith Molder Head made for the Mark tools. It is P/N 505553 and there was a change in the design not having the cutouts any longer for the blade attachment set screws. All 4 of these Molder Heads can be mounted directly on the Spindle of the Model 10's or any Mark tool. You can see the set screw hole in each one at the bottom of each in the picture.

All but the first Molder Head uses a set screw to push a ball bearing into the Knives to hold them in place. For the original Molder Head the set screw directly held the knives in place. The original Molder is aluminum and the other three are steel. There were two versions of the Molder Knives which are shown below. Besides the black coating the difference is the hole for mounting them. They are interchangeable but I would personally feel better using the one on the left in the original Molder Head that the knives were designed for. And vice versa.

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Molder Knives.jpg (280.69 KiB) Viewed 89292 times

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The Molder Head which brought this thread back to life by Scott is the one made for the Sawsmith Table Saw shown below. That one has been talked about already so I won't go into a bunch of detail. This one would require an Arbor to use on a Mark.

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555611 Sawsmith Molder Head r.jpg (214.37 KiB) Viewed 89292 times

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So a bit more information on the original Aluminum Molder Head P/N 12 375. There was another version of it made by Magna specifically for Montgomery Ward's Pwer-Kraft line. It does not have the Set Screw to directly mount it to the Spindle Shaft so it requires an Arbor. It also had a Pwer-Kraft sticker on it.

Shopsmith stopped supplying their own Molder Knives and Molder Head a few years ago and went to the Molder Head shown below and its knives. This Molder Head does require an Arbor to mount it on the Spindle. No more direct mounting. Shopsmith has since stopped selling Molder Heads and Knives.

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556213 Molder Head new.jpg (62.98 KiB) Viewed 89292 times

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You can use other brand Molder Heads and Knives such as the Craftsman one previously mentioned. I have a Craftsman set that I can use on my Shopsmith tools. Even Shopsmith last went to another brand (above) that they sold for a while.

Since it was previously mentioned the Molder Arbor P/N 555619 made for the Sawsmith Table Saw is shown (right) in the picture below with the current 5/8" Molder/Dado Arbor.

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505506 - 555619.JPG (104.52 KiB) Viewed 89292 times

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Sorry I don't have a separate picture of it, but as you can see it is a longer threaded shaft version of the current 5/8" Saw Blade Arbor P/N 555608 with a stack of machined washer added.