Shop "Facilities"

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:17 am

I mentioned on another thread starting a new thread for this subject and this is it. It was starting as quoted below:
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"While in the old shop both my planer and jointer ended up with "tom cat streaks" on them. I scrubbed them down with pine cleaner and quit putting off getting the cat (a dump-out) fixed.
So far I have never marked my territory on a Shopsmith...
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I was once on a woodworking email list where we were discussing shop "facilities" and one member reported having a large potted plant in his shop where he...
Not sure I would want that.
Maybe we should start a new thread on shop facilities."
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I know of a number of shops with sort of illegal bathrooms in them but the county health folks seem to look the other way as long as no one complains. As in business it seems to be location, location, location. I know of two that have poly tanks of around 150 gallons as septic tanks with a minimal drainage fingers. Both are in the country and both have worked fine for a long time. That could get you hanged in some neighborhoods. Even with long shop days you can train yourself to the point that use is minimal. I learned that when I worked for a company that had a location without a bathroom at the farm and you had to drive a mile to the office to use a bathroom. Still the "dispensing" of liquid waste was common at the farm (but not in a potted plant).
In some parts of the country you can still use an outhouse. In our county you cannot use one for general use but you can use them as an "emergency" facility.
I have a number of email lists that relate to rather extreme frugal living and cheap shelters and many of those folks come up with some innovative solutions. Many live in areas of almost no water or where wells of any volume to speak of are almost impossible. Composting toilets, both homemade and commercial are common in many of those areas.
One common type used by many of the "homesteader" crowd is a sawdust toilet. It can be either indoors or out, but is definitely a rural location unit. Common practice is to build a wooden box with a seat (some are quite nicely finished) and inside of the box is a common plastic 5 gallon pickle bucket as a receptacle which get a starter layer of sawdust in the bottom. After each use sawdust is added to cover well. A second "clean" bucket is stored nearby for changing out when the first starts getting full. A vet pipe is normally ran outside and black pipe is common to work as a solar chimney to keep it vented. "Out back" somewhere a row of plastic barrels are lined up and the filled bucket is dumped into the first barrel and the bucket is hosed/rinsed out and hung upside down to dry and air out. The barrels are kept fully covered and filled barrels are left for as long as a year to compost down to actual compost which is then used as compost (or disposed of if preferred). What I have described is a normal setup for a full household. For shop use it might take a very long time to fill even one bucket.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:31 am

robinson46176 wrote:I mentioned on another thread starting a new thread for this subject and this is it. It was starting as quoted below:
====================================
"While in the old shop both my planer and jointer ended up with "tom cat streaks" on them. I scrubbed them down with pine cleaner and quit putting off getting the cat (a dump-out) fixed.
So far I have never marked my territory on a Shopsmith...
-
I was once on a woodworking email list where we were discussing shop "facilities" and one member reported having a large potted plant in his shop where he...
Not sure I would want that.
Maybe we should start a new thread on shop facilities."
=====================================
-
I know of a number of shops with sort of illegal bathrooms in them but the county health folks seem to look the other way as long as no one complains. As in business it seems to be location, location, location. I know of two that have poly tanks of around 150 gallons as septic tanks with a minimal drainage fingers. Both are in the country and both have worked fine for a long time. That could get you hanged in some neighborhoods. Even with long shop days you can train yourself to the point that use is minimal. I learned that when I worked for a company that had a location without a bathroom at the farm and you had to drive a mile to the office to use a bathroom. Still the "dispensing" of liquid waste was common at the farm (but not in a potted plant).
In some parts of the country you can still use an outhouse. In our county you cannot use one for general use but you can use them as an "emergency" facility.
I have a number of email lists that relate to rather extreme frugal living and cheap shelters and many of those folks come up with some innovative solutions. Many live in areas of almost no water or where wells of any volume to speak of are almost impossible. Composting toilets, both homemade and commercial are common in many of those areas.
One common type used by many of the "homesteader" crowd is a sawdust toilet. It can be either indoors or out, but is definitely a rural location unit. Common practice is to build a wooden box with a seat (some are quite nicely finished) and inside of the box is a common plastic 5 gallon pickle bucket as a receptacle which get a starter layer of sawdust in the bottom. After each use sawdust is added to cover well. A second "clean" bucket is stored nearby for changing out when the first starts getting full. A vet pipe is normally ran outside and black pipe is common to work as a solar chimney to keep it vented. "Out back" somewhere a row of plastic barrels are lined up and the filled bucket is dumped into the first barrel and the bucket is hosed/rinsed out and hung upside down to dry and air out. The barrels are kept fully covered and filled barrels are left for as long as a year to compost down to actual compost which is then used as compost (or disposed of if preferred). What I have described is a normal setup for a full household. For shop use it might take a very long time to fill even one bucket.

Effective disposal of TWO different items. A novel way to get rid of the sawdust! Any particular species work better?:D Aromatic Cedar????

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:01 am

I apologize for so many typing errors in that message. My laptop battery was dying and I was hurrying to get it posted before it all shut down. The charger was in the other end of the house.
I also intended to mention that in several I have seen pictures of a couple of spare buckets were stored under the lid of the box. Some in homes were not only nicely finished but also had a good bit of artistic wood carving and other ornamentation.
A tiny muffin fan like used in a computer for cooling would be cheap insurance against "back drafting" if installed in the vent pipe.
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I would really like to hear from others what solution they have found for "facilities". Of course if the shop is in a basement or an attached garage it is not a problem but I can tell you from experience that standing cross legged during a down-pour of rain, high winds and lightning while waiting it out in a shop a good distance from the bathroom is NOT a solution...

a1gutterman · Post by **a1gutterman** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:14 am

Installing gutters has exposed me to some interesting sights. One of which fits the bill for this thread! This particular gentleman had a shop that was some distance from his house and in an area that was viewable from his neighbors homes. His solution was to erect a tall fence out from one corner of his shop, close to the entrance. After running away from the building for about eight feet, it turned a 90* corner and went another six feet or so, then it turned another 90* corner and went back toward the shop wall for four feet or so. From the air, it wood look something like the letter "J". Toward the back of the "J", he had dug a hole and placed a section of concrete culvert vertically with the "bell" at the top and just above grade. He filled it with gravel, and that is what he uses, at least for one "operation". I do knot know what he does for the smell, but there was no smell while I was there. Where I live, it is like being in the woods; my neighbors can knot see me and there is plenty of usable areas. I try to spread it around to avoid a concentration. Oh! For those of you with mole problems, they use urine to mark their teritory and if you "mark" their holes, they will leave the area. I also "mark" the perimeter of my chicken pen to discourage the coyotes from entering. It has worked 100% so far.

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 1:22 am

Here are some pictures:
http://www.off-grid.net/wordpress/images/hinged-toilet.jpg
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Modern-Homesteading/2008-02-01/Make-a-Sawdust-Toilet.aspx
http://www.jjgift.com/2008-5-23.jpg
http://www.newtonhouse.info/img/Queensland/bentwc.jpg
Some other options:
http://www.shedandshelter.com/toilet/toilet.htm
This person recommends this system for moving vehicles:
http://www.txroadrunners.com/images/pics/Funny6/TackyToilet.jpg
One more for fun:
http://i.treehugger.com/images/2007/5/24/Gotta%20Go%20Briefcase%20Rodd%20Miller%20%C2%A92007-v2.jpg

regnar · Post by **regnar** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:40 am

A handyman down the street who will not ask to use the facilities when he is on a job uses this in his trailer. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0015GD03W/ref ... nkCode=asn

I suppose this would work for your shop. You would just have to run it in every once in a while to dump it. What I like is that it is airtight and leak proof. Probably the 2 most important things. When overseas we would put the toliet on the second floor and drill a hole in the wall for a 4 inch pvc pipe. Contents would slide out and gather in a metal 55 gallon drum. Some jet fuel and a match took care of the rest.

Gene Howe · Post by **Gene Howe** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:11 am

Many years ago I had an occasion to visit Belize. The houses (shacks, really) built near the ocean were on stilts, some as high as 30' above the rocky shore. The backside, containing the "Facilities", was cantilevered. Very simple "plumbing"!

At high tide, everything was OK. Low tide was another matter....a whole lot of another matter.

Here on the high deserts of AZ, we don't have the luxury of tides. Lots and lots of beach....no water. Luckily, my shop is but a few baby steps from the house. Still, I find it liberating to use the plentiful beach on occasion. We're on 30 treed acres with the closest neighbor over a mile and a quarter away. And she's at least 80. Doubt if she can see that far. She's a grizzled old bird and there's nothing she hasn't seen, anyway.

Gene

robinson46176 · Post by **robinson46176** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:39 am

One of my father's favorite jokes was telling people about the man who died in a round barn... Ran himself to death trying to find a corner to pee in.

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Some years ago I owned a two acre business property with three buildings about 50' apart, no big trees and county roads on two sides of it and a busy state highway on another side. Downright inconvenient.

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fjimp · Post by **fjimp** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:03 am

I have a feeling I will hate myself for posting this story. As a kid we were on a boy scout winter skiing and camping trip. We camped in an old cabin that sported a wood burning stove in the kitchen and an outhouse down the hill. Our scoutmaster always wore leather gloves when working with the stove. One morning he had visited the outhouse and his gloves fell out of his pocket into the double seater, as a frugal product of the great depression he combined a coat hanger to a long stick and fished out the gloves, carefully securing them into a plastic bag. That evening he was seen by one of the dads stirring the stew on the stove while wearing a pair of leather gloves. No it was a different pair. But that Dad never ate another bite of food the whole weekend. Now may I suggest we find a subject somehow related to wood working. fjimp

mbcabinetmaker · Post by **mbcabinetmaker** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:26 am

[quote="a1gutterman"]Installing gutters has exposed me to some interesting sights. One of which fits the bill for this thread! This particular gentleman had a shop that was some distance from his house and in an area that was viewable from his neighbors homes. His solution was to erect a tall fence out from one corner of his shop, close to the entrance. After running away from the building for about eight feet, it turned a 90* corner and went another six feet or so, then it turned another 90* corner and went back toward the shop wall for four feet or so. From the air, it wood look something like the letter "J". Toward the back of the "J", he had dug a hole and placed a section of concrete culvert vertically with the "bell" at the top and just above grade. He filled it with gravel, and that is what he uses, at least for one "operation". I do knot know what he does for the smell, but there was no smell while I was there. Where I live, it is like being in the woods]

Hummm, I have been having trouble with ground squirrels.....