Shopsmith Forums

Well.. My wife wanted me to build a giant 'H' made out of oak to hold a large towel rack similar to this one.

Anyway, I somehow got her to agree to allow me the honor of using mortise & tenon construction on this project. The reason for this is that the bathroom wall has no studs located in the proper locations and we'd prefer not to us some of those icky drywall hangers if possible. So.. I followed the Shopsmith guide showing how to do the mortise & tenon joints.. The tenon was done first and was relatively easy to do on the 1x4 material -- although I did readjust the table saw height after I found my fence was not square (had to revisit the adjustments page for that). However, the mortise was another story.. I used my 3/8" drill bit to chew a hole in the end of the vertical parts of the 'H' but had issues with the drill wandering in the drill press position which caused (IMHO) a sloppy fit in the end.. All in all, it did work but I'm not convinced I've got a ton of glue contact area but will find out when I take it out of the clamp later..

I had the SS locked down when doing the mortising and the work-piece was held against the fence using two clamps.. Is the 'wander' I saw perhaps related to having a single bearing quill or something? I don't know whether I've got a single or double bearing quill.. Hmm.. Ideas?:eek:

Rick it is hard to beat just a simple mortise chisel for a couple of mortises. I have some old Stanley flea market finds but check out the LN on this link.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1291

Notice the shape of the ones on the LN sight. Bevel edge chisels do not work well for mortises.



Tenons are the easy part as you have found out. Another way to make the mortise is with a router in a router table.



PS edit: These are some very good short videos on hand tools and use http://www.youtube.com/user/lienielsen# ... 0xvIjlqdUI

If you cut the mortises first you can "adjust" the fit easily when cutting the tenons. It is easier to control the size of the tenon than the mortise especially if you are using a method other than regular mortising equipment.
If you end up with a less than stellar fit there are numerous ways to "fill" the excess space with solid wood that will still make a very strong joint.

If you are ever worried about glue contact area and it really matters that the joint stays put, I have three words that may help ...epoxy, epoxy, and epoxy. The proper epoxy used appropriately will fill any gap and will exceed the strength of the pieces it is joining.

Paul M

mbcabinetmaker wrote:Rick it is hard to beat just a simple mortise chisel for a couple of mortises. I have some old Stanley flea market finds but check out the LN on this link.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?grp=1291

........

Are those prices for a dozen??

mickyd wrote:Are those prices for a dozen??

No Mike they are for a once in a lifetime purchase of a high quality tool. You really only need a 1/4",3/8", and possibly a 1/2" to do most wood working. Compare the cost of a $75.00 chisel that will last a lifetime (If properly maintained) to a $35.00 carbide router bit that will last a year or so and they seem to be a bargain. As I stated I have some old Stanley finds that the LN were patterned after. I pick up them up for a few bucks each. I do have a couple of LN planes though. I just think of them as a guilty pleasure.

mbcabinetmaker wrote:No Mike they are for a once in a lifetime purchase of a high quality tool. You really only need a 1/4",3/8", and possibly a 1/2" to do most wood working. Compare the cost of a $75.00 chisel that will last a lifetime (If properly maintained) to a $35.00 carbide router bit that will last a year or so and they seem to be a bargain. As I stated I have some old Stanley finds that the LN were patterned after. I pick up them up for a few bucks each. I do have a couple of LN planes though. I just think of them as a guilty pleasure.

Well, for someone who dished out a little over $500 on a headlamp for my road bike (bicycle), I guess you eventually graduate up to that expense after realizing the deficiency of past sub-par quality purchases. I'll let you know when I get there on a chisel.

mickyd wrote:Well, for someone who dished out a little over $500 on a headlamp for my road bike (bicycle), I guess you eventually graduate up to that expense after realizing the deficiency of past sub-par quality purchases. I'll let you know when I get there on a chisel.

I think you will have better success 'getting anywhere' on yer bike! I never rode a chisel anywhere!:D



OSX: A drill bit is a lousy substitute for a router bit! As you discovered a drill bit will wander severely when attempting to cut sideways. They are designed for straight off the end cutting only!

SS makes router bits with a 1/2" shaft(from 1/4" up to 3/4") that mount in a very substantial adapter/chuck. They cut sideways quite well. They do not wander, but the workpiece MUST be held securely.

BTW Oak makes it all the more difficult!!!!

osx-addict wrote:I used my 3/8" drill bit to chew a hole in the end of the vertical parts of the 'H' but had issues with the drill wandering in the drill press position ...
...Is the 'wander' I saw perhaps related to having a single bearing quill or something? I don't know whether I've got a single or double bearing quill.. Hmm.. Ideas?:eek:

Most probably the drill bit wandering problem was caused by poor drilling technique, or maybe because of the type of bit used. A slanted point bit designed for metal will present problems when used for mortises.

You need to use a brad point, Forstner, or spade bit to drill out a mortise without some bit wandering. The method to use is: First drill the ends of the mortise, then drill out the space between these holes with slightly overlapping holes. In this way the point of the bit will always be in solid wood and the overlapping is not enough to catch the bit and throw it off. You will now have a mortise with small "teeth" protruding into the hole. These teeth were remaining at the edges of the mortise where the bit did not overlap. Just slice these off using a sharp chisel. You may also want to square the ends. Squaring the ends is not necessary if you will round off the edges of the tenon.

I have made quite a few mortises in oak using this drill method with no issues. (I now use a router, because it is faster)

When I read your post one thing caught my eye right off. You made your tenon first. Confession: My very first M&T joint was made this way! Probably because tenons are easy and I felt good when it was made. I was proud to look at that nice tenon. I quickly found it would have been loads easier and much higher quality to make the mortises first - then fit the tenon to the mortise.

Recommended method: After making a mortise, make the tenon slightly larger than the mortise and then trim the tenon with a knife, plane, chisel or sandpaper. During this trimming operation continuous fitting trials are done.

Don't forget to slightly bevel the sides of the mortise inward toward the hole and/or slightly bevel the shoulders of the tenon toward the tenon. These operations will help the outside fit of the joint and present a reservoir for glue that will cut down on squeeze out.

Thanks everyone! I'll ponder all of this when it's time for the next round..

By the way.. In looking elsewhere at what others suggested/use, I wonder if you couldn't build a router jig that more or less does what the Festool Domino does and just do mortises and use their pre-fabbed loose tenon's similar to the way others use biscuits..?? Hmm.. That way you wouldn't need to use the table saw for the tenons.. Seems easier.. but I'm likely underthinking it..