edski
I purchased my first Shopsmith 500 in 1978. I worked in the construction industry and moved around the country so I thought it would be the way to go. I moved three times with that machine until leaving the construction industry and taking up permanent residence in 1981. After a period of time, I decided that individual machines would be the way to go. I sold the 500 in 1988 and bought individual tools (table saw, drill press, jointer, thickness planer & bandsaw). After a year I realized what a mistake I had made and bought a 510 with dust collector, jointer, bandsaw, lathe duplicator and other accessories. I sold the individual tools. In 1995 my father passed and I inherited his tools (table saw, jointer, bandsaw, scrollsaw, belt/disk sander & lathe). I sold his old table saw and bought a Jet table saw with 30" rip capacity. All this equipment was stuffed into an 11 ft by 12 ft shop. The following winter I expanded the shop to its present size, 12 ft by 15 ft. I decided it was rediculous to keep to sets of equipment and after much deliberation decided to sell the Shopsmith equipment. I then built a bench for the lathe. This brings me to the present. My shop is more crowded than ever and decided it time to do something about it. I am in the process of purchasing my third Shopsmith, a used 510, and have my eyes on a used bandsaw, jointer and dust collector. If everything goes well, I'll be returning to the Shopsmith family on Wednesday, the day after Christmas.
I'm looking forward to gaining the space back in the shop. This brings me to my suggestion for this thread. I'd be interested in seeing how other Shopsmith owners have set up their shops and how they store their Shopsmith equipment when not in use (what do you do with the main table when you're doing lathe work). So, if your inclined, post a picture of your shop in this thread.
edski
PS: My wife thinks I'm crazy. She may not be the only one that thinks that way!
Ed in Tampa
edski wrotePS: My wife thinks I'm crazy. She may not be the only one that thinks that way!
Edski
Wives have wisdom.
I use to live up north and I had a small aluminum boat with a 7hp motor that I could throw in the back of my pickup and go fishing when ever I wanted.
When I learned I was moving to Florida I sold my boat over the strenuous objections of my wife. I was sure living in Florida I would need a big boat.
Well we move and I have since owned a number of boats, and as they say the two happiest days in a boater's life is the day he buys his boat and the day he sells his boat.
I long for my little aluminum boat with a 7hp motor that I could throw in the back of my truck, which brings me to my story about Shopsmiths.
There are times I decide that standalones would be better. I go out price what I need and get ready to sell my Shopsmith. However the minute my wife learns of my plan she reminds me of my aluminum boat and how I miss it and threatens to kill me if I sell my Shopsmith.
The other day I had a guy interested in all my gear and was willing to pay top buck but my wife told me I would be a most miserable man if I sold it, so I backed out of the deal.
I'm sure if I hadn't sold my aluminum boat as I did I probably would be like you having sold my Shopsmith and trying to buy another.
Ed
edski
I guess I'm not alone. Do you suppose this is common to people with the name 'Ed'?
edski
ldh
Edski,
As I see it your first mistake was selling the first SS. If folks would just realize that each time we think of selling a SS we should buy another SS instead. I still have my 10ER as well as several other Mark Vs. Now when my shop is too crowded I can just push them out the door, one does not do that with one of those 1500 lb stand-alones.
ldh
roy_okc
Edski,
I'm a youngster to the SS world, purchasing my used 500 w/bandsaw and jointer 1.5 years ago. I already had a Ryobi BT3000 table saw, which I won't part with as I really dislike the SS's table saw function, and a floor standing drill press, which I could see replacing with a smaller bench-mount and the SS as secondary. I've found several things that I can do on the SS that are making my projects much easier, thanks in large part to this and the other SS forum, making it an indispensable tool. I just don't see selling the SS, even if I had a large shop and loads of money, as there are some things that it can do so well.
I am now using a shed that is similar in size to yours, about 11X15. Trying to arrange it is very much a work "in progress" over the past couple of years since I moved to there from the garage. First, I'm putting all the large tools on wheels so that I can easily move them to a wall/corner or away from other tools as I'm using them, etc. Second, I'll move stuff off the floor or shelves to hang on the walls. Third, I may try to figure out some overhead storage for lighter less used tools and supplies. Also, when purchasing new tools, such as my miter saw stand, I look for options to fold, easily disassemble, use for other purposes, etc., to decrease required dedicated floor space. The SS's small footprint and multiple uses fits right in to my present needs.
As far as the SS's large removable parts, I have an idea how to attach a 2X6 "bench" to my wall studs, with some bracing from below, and either 4X4 blocks or the SS SPT holders to hold the two SPTs and maybe the table somehow; this will be at a similar height as the SS to minimize having to adjust my height during tools changes.
It will always be tight in this setup, I'll never have the room in there to build a large piece (I'd have to go to garage for assembly and finish), but should be fine for small to mid-size projects.
Good luck,
Roy
paulmcohen
edski wrote
I'd be interested in seeing how other Shopsmith owners have set up their shops and how they store their Shopsmith equipment when not in use (what do you do with the main table when you're doing lathe work). So, if your inclined, post a picture of your shop in this thread.
I purchased the Shopsmith
Wall-Mounted Storage System. It gets the main table, extension tables and the 5 foot connector tubes out of the way.
I store the special purpose tools on
Mounting Bases on top of a storage unit (the plans are somewhere on the forum) I originally made for my 500. When I upgraded to the 520 with lift-assist it no longer fit so I moved it in the corner. I store most of the accessories inside. I also have an
Accessory Shelf that I store the rest of the accessories that I use more often.
I posted pictures on another
thread, but they were from when my kitchen was under construction and everything was a mess. Now everything is put away, two cars are back in the garage and my shop is almost back together. I am waiting for a new bandsaw blade to finish redoing my shop floor with RaceDeck.
edski
The purchase of the 510 fell thru. The condition was less than what I expected. Two other chances at a 510 also eluded me. However, after traveling all over New England looking for a Shopsmith, I found a 1992 500 in my home town and yesterday purchased it for $300. It came with a jig saw that looks like the original Shopsmith jigsaw, but it's manufactured by Wood Master Multi Tool. Anybody heard of that brand?
The 500 runs but I can see it needs a good cleaning, so I've started the clean, repair/replace, lubricate, and align process. I'll keep you posted.
So my list of stationary tools grows: 1992 Shopsmith 500, 10" Jet table saw, 6" Jet jointer, Craftsman lathe, 12" bandsaw, 6" belt sander and professional scroll saw, Delta 16 1/2" drillpress, Ryobi 10" planer, Penn State dust collector and Hegner scroll saw. All these tools in a 12'x15' shop.
Hmmm. I wonder what I still have room for ........... air compressor!!!
edski
8iowa
Edski:
For 25 years my shop occupied about 225 sq ft (12'x18') in our 2 car garage. The Shopsmith system excells in this type of situation. You will be even more challenged in your 165 sq ft space but with your purchase of a Shopsmith you are definitely headed in the right direction.
Any size shop, above all else, must have function. It appears to me that you now have too many floor space occuping tools and some hard decisions may be in order. I recently visited my brother-in-law's garage shop and it was so crowded that you literally had to go outside in order to turn around. I said, "Donnie, you have got to stop going to auctions!". His retort was, "They were such good deals!". But I digress..........
You can never go wrong with laying out your shop space in scale on paper and making cut outs of the tools in order to plan the most efficient use of the space. It can also be helpful in planning the placement of electrical receptacles, lighting, and wall storage. In your case, every square inch of floor space needs to be carefully thought out.
Your present line-up of stationary tools represents a lot of redundancy. If you upgrade your Shopsmith to 510 or 520 you will no longer need the Jet table saw. The Shopsmith in lathe mode can also easily replace the need for the Craftsman lathe. When you put the Shopsmith in drill press mode it will be superior to your Delta drill press. If the Ryobi 10" planer and the Hegner scroll say are bench top units they will not occupy valuable floor space when not being used. I'll also recommend that you replace the 6" jointer with the Shopsmith 4" jointer. You will gain valuable floor space and still be able to joint edges for gluing. I recently viewed a thread on another woodworking forum where the discussion centered on the need to have a jointer just as wide as their planer in order to surface boards. This of course can get you into huge 1500 lb machines. Then someone piped in with a "whatsthematter with you guys" comment, stating that with his hand plane he can remove the cup or twist form a board in minutes and have it ready to go through the planer. Nuf said!
Lumber storage will also be required and I recommend vertical storage racks for a small shop. Through the years I have found that my woodworking bench with it's tail vice and bench dogs has been indispensible for clamping, gluing, assembly, and hand tool work. If possible, it should be placed so that you can walk all around it. This bench has been useful for virtually every project I've done. Most benches on the market are about 20" wide and 50" to 72" long. You can even purchase the hardware and make your own bench.
Keep us posted as you progress.
chettrick
Many years ago I started with new SS and usd it quite a bit. When the divorce came, I ended up selling all my stuff to pay the mortgage. The shuttle blew up that year and the housing in my area was not selling well. Many people in my area were emplyed through the shuttle program.
I stayed out of woodworking for a long time but I would see the SS show now and then at the local Lowes. I finally bought one not even thinking about the many other tools, mainly because I did to have the room. I came across a deal with two older SS with almost every attachment. My now wife had gotten into bowl turning and was all for it. I put in a 10x20 shed and lined it and a/c installed. It worked but I was glad to have the convience of the smaller footprint.
We now have 3 acres and it came with a pole barn. I put in a concrete floor and then walled, insulated and a/c. In Florida, it gets into the 100s sometimes and rust destroys everything here. I now have a 24x24 shop with lots of space. I had sold off one of the older SS to a friend who only uses it as a tablesaw. Last we talked, he was willing to sell it back for enough money to get a tablesaw. Now I can use the SS to hold most of the accessories.
Still have lots of room in my shop but here is a question for you, What do you use your tablesaw for when it is not in use? A standalone unit that comes close to the capabilities of a 520 takes about 20-25 square feet of your shop. Do you use it as a workbench, place to pile your stuff?
With an SS, it may not be a tablesaw now, it might be your drill press or lathe or belt sander. I have lots of room in my shop and by what I have read, a lot more than many of you. Not bragging by any means, but with my space, I still choose to use an SS, even with over 575 sq ft. I value my extra space.
8iowa
chettrick:
Here in Gainesville I still have a garage based shop. However, last year in the U.P. I built a 24'x28' shop with a gambrel roof. The 28x12 upper story serves well for lumber drying and storage.
Even though I now have the room for a big table saw and other stand alone tools I decided to stay with the Shopsmith system. A couple of months ago I purchased a used 500 upgraded to Pro Fence from a local widow. I have taken it to my U.P. shop and I will have two Shopsmiths. I can set one up as a table saw with the Incra 5000 sled and use the other machine with accessories. I also added a Power Station for the scroll saw and belt sander.
In '05 my son-in-law and I attended a class at Shopsmith in Dayton. There they had one Shopsmith set up as a saw with the Incra 5000 sled and the jointer on the side, and another Shopsmith set up with the with the router table. The bandsaw was on a power stand. In many ways I'm trying to approach this kind of efficiency. With my shop set-up in this manner I don't see how stand alone tools would offer any advantages.
a1gutterman
Hi 8iowa,
8iowa wrotechettrick:
............ With my shop set-up in this manner I don't see how stand alone tools would offer any advantages.
I like my 510. I also like stand alones. The advantages of stand alones may be few, but they are there.
IMHO, there are no advantages to stand alones unless you have the room.
First off, even though changing modes on the Mark V are quick, you still have to do them. Not so with stand alones.
Secondly,
if you do have the room for a stand alone table saw, with a permanant outfeed table, it is much easier to handle large sheet goods. No setting up saw horses; No electric cords getting in the way; No stretching across your work; No going outside to cut the sheets down to size; No using clamp on guides; etc.
In my old home, I used 1/2 of my two car garage part time as my shop. I learned to like my 510 there. Then I designed and built a house the way that I wanted it. For a home shop, I have a rather large dedicated area to work in. My shop is roughly 25' by 25'. That does not include another area for lumber storage. My stand alone 12" table saw takes up its place in the center of the shop. Even so, it is located in front of a garage door, making it easy to rip long boards if the need arises (The garage door is to make bringing in materials and bringing out finished projects easy, not for driving a car through).
My 510 has many advantages over stand alones, even in my large shop: Variable speeds; allows the operator to change modes without having to change other aspects of the setup; easiest and fastest table saw blade change in the world; maneuverability; a horizontal boring machine; a drill press that can create pocket holes; customer service; and those are just what I come up with without concentrating.
I believe that I have the best of both worlds. There is a time and a place for everything.:D
8iowa
Tim:
The stand alone vs Shopsmith arguement will go on forever, however I think most of us here will agree that if you only have 200 square feet or so to work in and limited electrical capacity the advantages are with the Shopsmith. When we owned our busines, I had a frequent need to cut 4'x8' sheets to make utility shelving. I used my Shopsmith, and with a helper got alone fine - sort of a do what you have to do with what you have situation. A big cabinet maker's table saw with generous infeed and outfeed tables would of course been better, but a large and electrially hungry machine like that would have been out of the question in my small garage space. Fortunately most of my 4'x8' sheets were 1/2 inch thick. The occasional need to cut 3/4 plywood was more difficult due to the weight, especially if my wife was my helper.
In my new U.P. shop I am blessed with abundant local supplies of pine and hardwoods. I don't forsee any need to cut large sheet goods on a regular basis. Even though I now have the space for a large table saw I will not be going that route. The two Shopsmiths will give me a lot of flexability. My son, son-in-law, and brother can join me in the shop and work separately on their projects without having to queue up to use a saw.
Interestingly enough, I have read several books on setting up small shops published by Taunton Press (Fine Woodworking magazine). There is a lot of good information provided, however, all the shops feature stand alone tools, most of which are on various types of mobile bases. I remember one picture of a guy shoving around a heavy jointer and got to thinking "Why don't they have at least one shop example of using a Shopsmith? Do they think that stand alone tools are so advantageous that it justifies the heavy work of moving around machines that weigh 500 or more pounds?" It would seem to me that changing modes on a Shopsmith is much quicker and easier in comparison. I sent an email to Taunton asking them these questions. Naturally I've not received any response.
a1gutterman
Hi 8iowa,
The stand alone vs Shopsmith arguement will go on forever, however I think most of us here will agree that if you only have 200 square feet or so to work in and limited electrical capacity the advantages are with the Shopsmith.
I absolutely agree with you, as I said:
IMHO, there are no advantages to stand alones unless you have the room.
When we owned our busines, I had a frequent need to cut 4'x8' sheets to make utility shelving. I used my Shopsmith, and with a helper got alone fine - sort of a do what you have to do with what you have situation.
Again, I agree with you, and I find myself working alone most of the time, so cutting large panels can be difficult using the Mark V. Been there, done that.
A big cabinet maker's table saw with generous infeed and outfeed tables would of course been better, but a large and electrially hungry machine like that would have been out of the question in my small garage space.
So, I see that you do agree with me:D .
Interestingly enough, I have read several books on setting up small shops published by Taunton Press (Fine Woodworking magazine). There is a lot of good information provided, however, all the shops feature stand alone tools, most of which are on various types of mobile bases. I remember one picture of a guy shoving around a heavy jointer and got to thinking "Why don't they have at least one shop example of using a Shopsmith? Do they think that stand alone tools are so advantageous that it justifies the heavy work of moving around machines that weigh 500 or more pounds?" It would seem to me that changing modes on a Shopsmith is much quicker and easier in comparison. I sent an email to Taunton asking them these questions. Naturally I've not received any response.
Naturally. BTW, My table saw is on a mobile base, but I have not moved it since I placed it.
8iowa
Tim:
I think it's time (even past time) for a book/DVD/on-line video featuring small woodworking shops that utilize the Shopsmith. Taunton will never do this. I'm sure that there are many good shop examples to be found from members on this forum.
There could be a lot of good tips on shop layout, flooring, heating, electrical & lighting, workbenches, lumber storage, and much more. Shops in garages, basements, atics, and separate buildings could be featured with comments and suggestions from the owners. It could include hobbiests, semi-pro, and even some full professional operations.
This wouldn't necessarilly be an out and out Shopsmith advertisement, but it would give a lot of exposure. Actually, in many of Nick Engler's books, there are some photos of Shopsmiths and Shopsmith accessories but in most cases you have to know what you are looking at in order to know.
There is a need to inform new woodworkers, both in the home and in small shops that there is an alternative to shoving around heavy machinery.
a1gutterman
Hi 8iowa,
8iowa wroteTim:
I think it's time (even past time) for a book/DVD/on-line video featuring small woodworking shops that utilize the Shopsmith. Taunton will never do this. I'm sure that there are many good shop examples to be found from members on this forum.
There could be a lot of good tips on shop layout, flooring, heating, electrical & lighting, workbenches, lumber storage, and much more. Shops in garages, basements, atics, and separate buildings could be featured with comments and suggestions from the owners. It could include hobbiests, semi-pro, and even some full professional operations.
This wouldn't necessarilly be an out and out Shopsmith advertisement, but it would give a lot of exposure. Actually, in many of Nick Engler's books, there are some photos of Shopsmiths and Shopsmith accessories but in most cases you have to know what you are looking at in order to know.
There is a need to inform new woodworkers, both in the home and in small shops that there is an alternative to shoving around heavy machinery.
Sounds good to me:) .
PTWFE
Awhile back in one of the WW mags' shops of the year special edition (I forget which one just now) something like 3 of the 5 shops featured had Mark V's in them. Yet we don't see any articles where a Shopsmith is used.
IMNTBHO this is because the "vast stand alone conspiracy" :D is laboring under the mistaken impression that somehow woodworking on a Mark V is radically different than woodworking the "regular" way. I've had this exchange with an editor or two now and then as well as several WW authors and they all seem to think we want articles and books about Shopsmith machines when in fact it's that we'd like to see woodworking articles, just like the ones they have now where Shopsmith machinery is used to build the project.
I forget what the installed base is supposed to be but I've heard that since the introduction of the 10E back in the day over a million machines have been sold. Regardless and regardless how many are still in use the Yahoo users list has more subscribers than the published circulation of some WW mags.
But I'm probably preaching to the choir here. :rolleyes:
a1gutterman
You go Doc!:D
charlese
DrG wrote" ... I forget what the installed base is supposed to be but I've heard that since the introduction of the 10E back in the day over a million machines have been sold. Regardless and regardless how many are still in use the Yahoo users list has more subscribers than the published circulation of some WW mags.
But I'm probably preaching to the choir here. :rolleyes:
That's impressive DrG! However, if I were on the board of a WW mag. - I also, would work toward showing and featuring products of our advertising vendors. I would also work to shun those refusing to place adds! That is, unless we were in negotiations concerning ads.
Advertizing income is the bread and butter for these mags. Look at the recent coverage given to Festool and Steel City tools have achieved through a little spending on adds. Even European
multipurpose machines have been reviewed in articles - They also advertized!!!
Shopsmith absolutely refuses to spend the bucks to place adds in WW magazines. Why? I'll never understand. They report, they tried it once and it didn't work. It is Shopsmith's super paradigm.:confused: Kinda like the guy who got sick after his 1st workout and never did it again - not realizing that he is shortening his life because of his reluctance!
paulmcohen
I agree you can influence editorial with advertising but just advertising will not get you editorial without news. The European machines are new, so is Festool and Steel City tools, even Sand Flee is getting coverage because it is new. The RingMaster has been advertising but not getting coverage because it is not new.
If you have something NEW you may get coverage because the magazines hope you will advertise in the future or at least in the issue where your product appears.
Woodcrafter Magazine is doing a series on "Top Shops" and this month they featured tools that cost more than most peoples cars and those companies never advertised but they were unique (NEW). The shop was 1,100 square feet, now if they or someone else does an article on a 120 SQ FT shop it would have to be a Shopsmith (or clone) but who is pitching that article.
More people who read Wood have closer to a 120 SQ FT shop than 1,000 SQ FT but there is more news in 1,000 SQ FT with all the NEW large tools.
I would bet if someone pitched a full shop in under 400 SQ FT with a few projects you would get coverage without advertising.
My division has stopped all paper advertising, we only advertise on-line. We spend less and do much better. We still do press tours to the editorial staffs of the paper magazines when we have NEWS and we get great coverage. We also invite the editorial staff to briefings about what is new, sometimes we do it online with WebEX. Nick could use his Webcast but he has to have news.
On DIY there is a new show called Cool Tools, most (if not all) of the companies featured do not advertise on the show but they have an interesting story. Plus some offer the show factory tours, which makes it more interesting. There is also the "Made in America" show on the Travel Channel, again no advertising required but a message. What other power tools are made in America, they have featured Channel Lock in the past.
PTWFE
I think you're correct, Charlese and that's probably the way those editorial boards think. In fact sometimes I think they all think alike or they have some secret society and that's why we keep seeing multiple mags featuring articles based on the same subject in the same month! :( What was it last month, raised panels or something?
But all of us Shopsmith owners buy a lot of glue, screws, sandpaper, finishing supplies, hardware, woodworking gadgetry, etc. I suppose they think we'll read them anyway and they're probably right, at least in my case.
Being a loyal Shopsmith owner is a hard life but somebody has to lead it. ;)
