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Health Insurance Premiums Going Up

paulmcohen

frank81 wroteIf your employer offers it, you could also look at going with a higher deductible plan and a flex spend/health savings account so that deductible get spaid with pre-tax dollars. I wouldn't expect to much of a gain though.

ObamaCare has virtually eliminated Health Savings Accounts. They were the long term solution to the problem.

paulmcohen

mrhart wroteThat sucks.........:mad:

Thanks though sir.

I agree. The reason for all this was wage and price controls that were put in both during WW-II and the Nixon administration allowed employers to provide free/low cost health insurance and not count is a raise thereby skirting the wage controls. Once companies starting giving out insurance benefits it became a competitive edge and they got tax breaks for doing it so they kept it up. After this happened people no longer paid any attention to what medical care cost (someone else was paying). Why ask for a generic prescription when you could get the "real stuff". More recently to control costs people were given some incentive to choose generics and generic use skyrocketed, but I would bet no one here has a clue what they paid their doctor for a visit or if another doctor cost less unless they don't have insurance or they have a medical savings account. What other industry lets people buy a product without regard to cost and has someone else pay for it?

joshh

frank81 wrote I have never seem the case of someone in actual need be shut out by the system.

The only system they aren't shut out of is emergency care and by that time it's too late. Patients are constantly shut out of non-emergent care.

paulmccohen wrote Everywhere that has socialized medicine including Medicare in US either rations care or is going bankrupt or both. The only reason we are 39th in infant mortality is we actually track it.

I'm sorry, but both of these sentences (with the exception of Medicare) are completely false.

France is one of the few that is restructuring and it's because they pay for stuff like 6 months off for both parents of a newborn, spas for the mom, etc. The sad part of it all is even with all these perks, they still pay less per patient than us and provide significantly better care. The rationed care statement is a myth concocted by those who wish to subdue the uninformed.

If you have time to read 112 pages with an open mind...this is a real eye opener.

http://commonwealthfund.org/~/media/Files/Publications/Fund%20Report/2012/Nov/1645_Squires_intl_profiles_hlt_care_systems_2012.pdf

pennview

There are signs in hospitals in this part of the U.S. that say service cannot be denied because of an inability to pay or lack of health insurance. And, I'm sure those signs are in hospitals in Texas as well. Moreover, responsible folks don't have more children than they can afford. If someone is temporarily down on their luck, there is plenty of help available.

joshh

pennview wroteThere are signs in hospitals in this part of the U.S. that say service cannot be denied because of an inability to pay or lack of health insurance. And, I'm sure those signs are in hospitals in Texas as well. Moreover, responsible folks don't have more children than they can afford. If someone is temporarily down on their luck, there is plenty of help available.

The signs apply to emergent care only. Emergency care is only one small part of healthcare.

I agree completely about the not having kids you can't afford :D

I personally feel that anyone on any kind of public assistance should be forced to get the birth control shot. It's effective for 3 months per shot.

pennview

Josh, I have an open mind, but I've learned that folks at the Commonwealth Fund don't. Before spending time on 112 pages purporting to describe something like the American health system, folks should want to know if the organization behind their study are biased or have a political agenda. So, if you're interested, simply Google "commonwealth fund bias" and you'll get a long list of articles about just that.

Here's one of the hits -- http://www.ideasinactiontv.com/tcs_daily/2010/08/last-in-credibility-the-liberal-campaign-to-discredit-american-health-care-1.html

Dig a little bit and you'll find that the Commonwealth Fund is a left wing propaganda machine run by a former Democrat staffer in the Carter administration, who's pushing for a single payer system like Canada's. So with that agenda, what's the chances of getting an objective study?

And then there is this question -- why do Canadians come to the U.S. for treatment when the Canadian system is so good? If you want to know why, it's because there can be a long wait for treatment up north.

Ed in Tampa

pennview wroteAnd then there is this question -- why do Canadians come to the U.S. for treatment when the Canadian system is so good? If you want to know why, it's because there can be a long wait for treatment up north.

What you say may be true but I know of more than one Canadian that has gone back to Canada for treatment. When I asked why they said they thought the treatment they received in Canada was superior plus for them it was free.

I also know most countries sell drugs for a lot less money than we do here in the US. My wife's employers was from England, my wife had a problem in her elbow much like tennis elbow. Her employer gave her some ibprofen cream that worked like magic. She asked the druggist about it and was told it can't be sold in the US and that there was a similar product that sold for $150 for 5 oz. The product her employer gave her is over the counter in England and sells for less than $19 bucks for 32 oz.

We also order Nexium from the Canadian Pharmacy here in Tampa and get packaged Nexium for about 1/3 the price of buying Nexium here in the US.

paulmcohen

Ed in Tampa wrote

We also order Nexium from the Canadian Pharmacy here in Tampa and get packaged Nexium for about 1/3 the price of buying Nexium here in the US.

You can blame the FDA for the high cost of drugs sold here, it costs $50 million to bring a drug to market in the US and virtually nothing is the rest of the world so we in the US pay for that testing and the rest of the world benefits. In addition we pay for inspectors, insurance against lawsuits and a host of other regulations that the rest of the world does not require.

Prescriptions originally existed so the druggist could compound the medicine correctly, then they were used to prevent narcotics from being used recreationally now they are used by insurance companies to control costs. In Mexico you can still go into a pharmacy and buy just about whatever you want without a prescription you just pay cash. Today for type 1 diabetes there are very effective treatments available everywhere else in the world but not in the US because the FDA requires this testing, in Europe they are on their 5 generation of continuous glucose monitoring devices and here we are still using the first. In 2011 the FDA finally approved a new treatment for breast cancer and during the announcement they said it would save the lives of 70,000 women per year and was in development for 15 years. That means 1 million women died waiting. I don't think any of the dead women would have turned down the drug if offered, even if it killed them. It will be 15 years before I can get an artificial pancreas but I was trial patent #5 and I would have been happy to walk out with the experimental device.

shipwright

I won't get into an argument about the U.S. medical system and it's insurance costs and coverage.

I will however, tell you that precious few Canadians (no one that I know and I know quite a few having been one for 63 years) would trade their system for yours.

There are cases of non emergency surgeries and the like that wealthy Canadians will pay (dearly) to have done in other countries rather than wait a few months at home but we are talking about things like hip replacements, not heart surgeries. If you need it now, you get it now. ..and that goes for everyone, rich and poor alike.

I apologize for calling foul here but don't listen to everything you hear about how Canadians don't get value from their system. We do and we would never dream of giving it up.

Paul M

charlese

Yep! Insurance cost went up about 25%. At the same time Mt. State legislature is considering a bill to end any guarantied annual raises (GABA) in pension. Oh, Woe!

It is what it is!

joshh

I would agree with your statement about Canadians coming here for better care of they simply crossed the border to Michigan, Ohio, etc... but they don't. The few you find coming to the US go to places like MD Anderson or other top clinics. This further reinforces my belief that our healthcare system is completely imbalanced when it comes to access. Just because some very rich Canadians seek out highly specialized treatment at a handful of centers, doesn't mean average American can afford or has access to those places.

Fair enough point on the source of my reference, but it's far from the only one. I have not been able to find a single source that ranks US healthcare in the top of any category except trauma care.

If you are unlucky enough to suffer a severe brain injury, your out of pocket will be well over $500,000 AFTER insurance. The hospital will bill their rate, the insurance will pay peanuts, and you will be stuck with the difference. They will give you 30 days to pay, then destroy your credit for life.

pennview

Josh, you have no idea what my insurance will pay under what circumstances, nor what anyone else's will pay for that matter unless you read their insurance policies. Some may work as you describe, I know for a fact that some clearly don't, and how that would affect anyone is open to conjecture.

If you want an example of government-run care, take a look at the VA system. Here's one story: "the 64-year-old Vietnam veteran from Dayton has waited nearly four years to resolve his disability claim with the VA — and his case is one of 2.1 million still pending before the Veterans Benefits Administration. On average, it takes 262 days nationally and 278 days in Ohio to complete a veteran’s disability claim."

If you want to read the more about VA care, it's here -- http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/veterans-can-wait-years-for-benefits/nT6SF/

dusty

pennview wroteJosh, you have no idea what my insurance will pay under what circumstances, nor what anyone else's will pay for that matter unless you read their insurance policies. Some may work as you describe, I know for a fact that some clearly don't, and how that would affect anyone is open to conjecture.

If you want an example of government-run care, take a look at the VA system. Here's one story: "the 64-year-old Vietnam veteran from Dayton has waited nearly four years to resolve his disability claim with the VA — and his case is one of 2.1 million still pending before the Veterans Benefits Administration. On average, it takes 262 days nationally and 278 days in Ohio to complete a veteran’s disability claim."

If you want to read the more about VA care, it's here -- http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/veterans-can-wait-years-for-benefits/nT6SF/

I agree with you completely BUT the problems at the VA are not the same as those throughout the rest of the US medical care system.

The VA problem, in my experienced opinion, is strictly a matter of gross mismanagement and lack of empathy on the the part of the VA staff. The facilities and technologies are there they just do not get used effectively.

The severe backlog at the VA may be a staffing problem but if the Government was really concerned they could resolve this problem while reducing the unemployment problem simultaneously by hiring administrative staff.

Spend just one day at a VA facility, talking with the many patients that will be sitting in the lobbies and you will understand. While doing this, pay attention to those staff members who go on break and note when they come back.

joshh

pennview wroteJosh, you have no idea what my insurance will pay under what circumstances, nor what anyone else's will pay for that matter unless you read their insurance policies. Some may work as you describe, I know for a fact that some clearly don't, and how that would affect anyone is open to conjecture.

If you want an example of government-run care, take a look at the VA system. Here's one story: "the 64-year-old Vietnam veteran from Dayton has waited nearly four years to resolve his disability claim with the VA — and his case is one of 2.1 million still pending before the Veterans Benefits Administration. On average, it takes 262 days nationally and 278 days in Ohio to complete a veteran’s disability claim."

If you want to read the more about VA care, it's here -- http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/national-govt-politics/veterans-can-wait-years-for-benefits/nT6SF/

I'll agree with all of that. My concern is when any family has to choose between getting destroyed by an illness vs. getting destroyed by medical bills. The current system works well for a lot of people, but it also doesn't work for a lot of people who have done exactly what they were supposed to. There are many people who paid their premium only to have it cancelled when they needed it most, and as a result died unnecessarily.

It's a travesty how the government treats out vets. The VA should be a shining example of quality healthcare. While I feel everyone should get tax-funded healthcare, the vets deserve it more than anyone. I also believe that if someone serves in combat, they and their immediate family should have free, quality healthcare for life. This should include mental health.

I don't think any country has healthcare just right. There are many better than the US and many worse. What I do know is that as long as politicians are involved...we are screwed.

Ed in Tampa

I have an observation on VA care. A very good friend of mine needed a heart valve replacement. Here in Tampa we have a major VA hospital and in that hospital my friend received fantastic care. The surgery was done by the leading cardiac surgeon of the city and his treatment was as good as any hospital.

However I did observe and extraordinary number of people (patients) hanging around the hospital. In fact very chair or place to sit was in use. There were tons of veterans in wheelchairs in the halls and sidewalks.

Having been around all the major hospitals in Tampa I have never seen so many patients in public areas before. I asked and was told that many have nothing else so they come almost daily claiming this problem or that and hang out. Most talk to others and share stories but some just sit and watch people come in and out of the hospital.

In my buddies case he was in and out and his total cost $250 for an operation if done on someone without VA coverage would be $100,000+

Plus he gets all his meds for free, which is another huge huge savings.

pennview

The government, i.e., Obama and the Democrats, should have fixed what didn't work -- folks that couldn't AFFORD health insurance and those with pre-existing conditions, etc. -- and left the rest of the EXCELLENT U.S. health care system alone. We now have 17,000 and counting pages of rules and regulations covering everyone under the not-so Affordable Care Act.

Here's another example of how the government works. Tours of the White House have been cancelled because of insufficient funds, but the government has no problem paying for Vice President Biden visiting Paris for one night and London the next and getting a bill for about $1,000,000 for two nights in a hotel.

Washington is out of control!

dusty

pennview wroteThe government, i.e., Obama and the Democrats, should have fixed what didn't work -- folks that couldn't AFFORD health insurance and those with pre-existing conditions, etc. -- and left the rest of the EXCELLENT U.S. health care system alone. We now have 17,000 and counting pages of rules and regulations covering everyone under the not-so Affordable Care Act.

Here's another example of how the government works. Tours of the White House have been cancelled because of insufficient funds, but the government has no problem paying for Vice President Biden visiting Paris for one night and London the next and getting a bill for about $1,000,000 for two nights in a hotel.

Washington is out of control!

I agree that the Government spends far too much money gallivanting around the world (both on business and vacation) but let us not exaggerate. The million dollars was spent paying for a cadre of people (some of whom probably should have been left home) not just the President and Vice President.

What we all need to acknowledge is that health care is just a very small part of what the President wants to happen. The President is very successfully growing the Government to a point where the Government will have total control. Glenn Beck used to harp on this all the time and I just turned him off. The President is getting exactly what he wants, socialized medicine with all of its faults and Government control of almost everything else (education, transportation, health and welfare, environmental protection, the treasury, the Congress).

If you doubt this, wait to see what happens at the mid-term. If the Republicans lose control of the House - it is all over.

davebodner

Josh, you're fighting the good fight. Others of us have been there and given up. It just gets disheartening when you point out verifiable errors, but there's no acknowledgement or even a decent counter.

I'm sure the folks on the other side are good people. They might even give us the shirts off their backs. But these frustrating arguments lead to less-than-charitable emotions, in me at least. That's why it was nice while the political truce still held. I don't want to feel negatively toward anyone on this forum.

fredsheldon

As I have said many times here before, let's see how things look in 4 years. I have a feeling things will look much better. I suggested the stock market was going to break 14,000 sometime this year, which is an indicator of the health of businesses. I would have never guessed that it would hit 15,000 or maybe even 16,000 by the end of the year. Only time will tell as to where it will be in 4 more years. :) I believe the current administration is trying to make things better, but I'm not sure they are getting all the assistance they could be getting in their efforts. Time to go turn another bowl in case I need to sell it to feed my family.:D

fjimp

Ed in Tampa wroteI have an observation on VA care. A very good friend of mine needed a heart valve replacement. Here in Tampa we have a major VA hospital and in that hospital my friend received fantastic care. The surgery was done by the leading cardiac surgeon of the city and his treatment was as good as any hospital.

However I did observe and extraordinary number of people (patients) hanging around the hospital. In fact very chair or place to sit was in use. There were tons of veterans in wheelchairs in the halls and sidewalks.

Having been around all the major hospitals in Tampa I have never seen so many patients in public areas before. I asked and was told that many have nothing else so they come almost daily claiming this problem or that and hang out. Most talk to others and share stories but some just sit and watch people come in and out of the hospital.

In my buddies case he was in and out and his total cost $250 for an operation if done on someone without VA coverage would be $100,000+

Plus he gets all his meds for free, which is another huge huge savings.

Ed I appreciate your story but must add that my own brother is and has been a victim of the VA care for many years. We have visited him there and come away feeling like veterans are treated in a manner something worse than dogs. For every positive example there are at least that many negative stories. I am biting my tongue trying to stay out of this discussion. For some 30 years I earned my living from health insurance. Watching how the democratic party has assailed an already broken system and turned it to a worse mess intentionally makes me sad. Worse yet is where they are taking us in the future. For those who like the new system good for you. I wonder if and when you will awaken to the real facts of life. This being all I will say. Jim

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