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Mark V Dust Collection - Is There a Better Way??

Gene Howe

Thanks, JPG. Once Dusty posted, I knew what it was.

Some of the off the wall stuff woodworkers do to accomplish tasks, are totally amazing. I wouldn't have ever thought to use that fencing part.... or part of a shower head ...to make an extension table.

dusty

Here is how this ended (for the time being). I have real work to do in the RV. It is scheduled for a road trip within months.

Dust Collector r4 008.jpg

Dust Collector r4 009.jpg

Dust Collector r4 010.jpg

In the last picture, this is what happens to the flexible hose when the carriage and headstock are brought together into the saw mode.

algale

Did the elbow at the dust chute disappear in this version?

dusty

algale wroteDid the elbow at the dust chute disappear in this version?

The elbow, as seen in this last shot, will disappear but only if you help it to do so. The flexible hose is quite stiff and once straight it tends to stay that way. Just a little bit of pressure, at the elbow, and it straightens right out.

In normal operation, for me, it is seldom that the carriage and headstock will be far apart. I did this just to ascertain that the hose would expand far enough. I am not sure that I could move the carriage to its extreme in the opposite direction but I don't believe I would be likely to do that anyhow.

Now I have to get to work making sawdust and see if it really works.

rudy49

I know this thread is about improving dust collection but your floating out-feed table is what has my attention. This would solve so many problems.

Do you have any specs you can, and are willing, to share. Are the hook brackets off the shelf somewhere or did you fashion them yourself? How long is the rod? How much elevation is there between the bracket and the top of the table?

I know I could figure all of this out myself but I would really appreciate any information you can share.

JPG

rudy49 wroteI know this thread is about improving dust collection but your floating out-feed table is what has my attention. This would solve so many problems.

Do you have any specs you can, and are willing, to share. Are the hook brackets off the shelf somewhere or did you fashion them yourself? How long is the rod? How much elevation is there between the bracket and the top of the table?

I know I could figure all of this out myself but I would really appreciate any information you can share.

The 'hook' brackets are from the mother ship.

Dusty has (a) lengthy thread(S) describing the development of that table.

The unique feature of it is that it tracks tilting of the table.

dusty

rudy49 wroteI know this thread is about improving dust collection but your floating out-feed table is what has my attention. This would solve so many problems.

Do you have any specs you can, and are willing, to share. Are the hook brackets off the shelf somewhere or did you fashion them yourself? How long is the rod? How much elevation is there between the bracket and the top of the table?

I know I could figure all of this out myself but I would really appreciate any information you can share.

The two links that I post here should put you in the area where most of the information is located. If you need more information, please initiate a different thread on that subject. I am willing to share all of my experiences regarding the tilting outfeed table. Building mine and making it work was quite a trip.

It is critical to understand cut line, center of rotation line (of the table) and location of support points.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1464&p=13253&hilit=outfeed+table#p13253

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1846&p=211444&hilit=tilting+outfeed+table#p211444

ecom1

This is a great topic for me because I struggle with the hose connection and dust produced by the saw. I had 2 thoughts:

first one was that maybe a shop vac or SS dust collector isn't sufficient, and a stronger suction source is needed. I also remember something on the Bill Pentz site that showed a revised upper blade guard with dust collection as part of it, so if you had a 4" or 6" line, you could split it down to collect both above and below the table.

The second thought was in regards to the existing collection port - what if the original was capped, and relocated using an aftermarket port (something like this)? I haven't tried it, so not sure if the location change would affect the dust collection

ecom1

Sorry, new user - can't figure out how to upload the pic :(

ecom1

What the pic showed was a 2 1/2" aftermarket dust port attached to the bottom of the lower guard - this would allow collection from directly below without interfering with the table. You could cap the existing with a plastic cap or duct tape I guess.

dusty

ecom1 wrote
What the pic showed was a 2 1/2" aftermarket dust port attached to the bottom of the lower guard - this would allow collection from directly below without interfering with the table. You could cap the existing with a plastic cap or duct tape I guess.

I believe that what you suggest would work as a dust collection port but I am uncertain as to whether or not it would improve what we already have. I suspect that most of us lack the knowledge of how air circulates within the lower saw guard. Why is the port where it is?

Hang a short section of hose off of the port on the lower saw guard and then do some heavy cutting. The collection of dust the emits from that hose (with no dust collector) will show you that the lower saw guard is quite effective. The turbulent set up by the saw blade does a very good job of moving the dust. The dust collector just sucks it up into a bag.

No Dust Collector.jpg

jsburger

ecom1 wrote
What the pic showed was a 2 1/2" aftermarket dust port attached to the bottom of the lower guard - this would allow collection from directly below without interfering with the table. You could cap the existing with a plastic cap or duct tape I guess.

I don't think that will make much difference or be worth the effort. The 510 saw guard has a channel on the side to guide the dust forced down by the blade to the port at the back.

The biggest problem is no upper saw guard dust collection. Of course if you don't use an upper saw guard disregard. 😃

There is a person that makes SS (and most other saws) upper saw guards with a dust port. The Shark Guard from Leeway Workshop at http://www.thesharkguard.com/. I had a very very small part in perfecting the SS version when he started making the SS version in 2007. He has made many improvements in the years since. They are very well made. The picture of the SS version (one of the originals) is from 2007. The picture of my Powermatic PM2000 version is from 2014. He makes them with 2 1/2" and 4" ports.

They are a bit pricey but the workmanship is superb and will improve your dust collection by a tremendous amount. My PM2000 spews dust without the upper guard the same as the SS.

jsburger

dusty wrote
ecom1 wroteWhat the pic showed was a 2 1/2" aftermarket dust port attached to the bottom of the lower guard - this would allow collection from directly below without interfering with the table. You could cap the existing with a plastic cap or duct tape I guess.
I believe that what you suggest would work as a dust collection port but I am uncertain as to whether or not it would improve what we already have. I suspect that most of us lack the knowledge of how air circulates within the lower saw guard. Why is the port where it is?

Hang a short section of hose off of the port on the lower saw guard and then do some heavy cutting. The collection of dust the emits from that hose (with no dust collector) will show you that the lower saw guard is quite effective. The turbulent set up by the saw blade does a very good job of moving the dust. The dust collector just sucks it up into a bag.

I totally agree Dusty. There is very little dust that escapes the lower saw guard with a dust collector. Most of the dust is from no dust collection by the upper guard. As the blade passes through the kerf on the out feed side it still creates dust that is spewed up on the table. Upper guard dust collection sucks almost all of it up.

ecom1

I agree in that I don't think the dust port would improve the collection - that idea was to address the issue with the hose and rear port clipping the table when moved. I may try that and will let you know if it works. The improvement in collection I was thinking of was the combination of a stronger collector, and the upper saw guard collector that jsburger showed (that I originally saw on Bill Pentz's site)

dusty

The upper saw guard collection port works and works well. It must. We have never seen any sign of saw dust in Johns' shop.

Furthermore, I have worked with a SharkGuard installed and it does eliminate very nearly all of the saw dust that escapes from above the table. If that is the way you want to go, I do not believe you will be disappointed.

I, on the other hand, do not care for the overhead hose and all of the associated apparatus. That is why I do longer have a SharkGuard. Not that it did not collect the dust because it did. I did not care for the setup.

With that, I was left with the need to improve dust collection and I have done that. All I have to do is remember to connect and turn on the dust collector.

If interested, there are other threads that discuss the modifications that Mark (mbcabinetmaker) and I have made to improve below table collection. Think about it! The dust is created as the saw blade passes down through the work piece. If adequately gathered at that point, there is no dust to be brought back to the upper surface.

This is but one.

http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6063&p=70071&hilit=dust+collector#p70071

dusty

I found a couple pictures of the modifications that I made to my lower saw guard. I am quite pleased with the results.

Lower Saw Guard Dust Collection 017.jpg

Lower Saw Guard Dust Collection 007.jpg

The adjustable portion of the lower saw guard is now sealed (can not be moved). An unbelievable amount of dust escaped there.

Lower Saw Guard Dust Collection 009.jpg

Lower Saw Guard Dust Collection 012.jpg

The lower guard is always open this wide. When I need to tilt the table, I use an unmodified lower saw guard.

Lower Saw Guard Dust Collection 015.jpg

The spring loaded plate is shown here all the way retracted (as in maxmium depth of cut)

ecom1

Nice modification! Have you ever been concerned that the metal might flex back towards the blade, or is the gauge rigid enough to keep if from wobbling?

dusty

ecom1 wroteNice modification! Have you ever been concerned that the metal might flex back towards the blade, or is the gauge rigid enough to keep if from wobbling?

That has never happened and I see no indication that it might BUT something like that is always possible. The metal is especially rigid. It is nothing more than flashing material used if roofing.

I was concerned about screws coming loose. I used pop-rivets for that reason.

algale

Nice modification, Dusty. Of course I saw the prototypes on the old thread and contributed one of my own. This one looks like it would be just about perfect for non-bevel cuts.

dusty

algale wroteNice modification, Dusty. Of course I saw the prototypes on the old thread and contributed one of my own. This one looks like it would be just about perfect for non-bevel cuts.

It works well but it is not perfect. The current short coming is that the blade still brings some saw dust up above the table. This deficiency is corrected by the SharkGuard because it also collects topside but like I said, I prefer to not have all that regalia above the table. Furthermore, my DC3300 will not lift the saw dust high enough to go overhead with the hose.

What would really solve this dilemma for me would be to have a dust collector that resided in the space beneath the Mark V.

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