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Shopsmith History

everettdavis

Without finding the text you are referencing the V-B I believe may have been a reference to the Mark V with B series headstock.

In 1991 Mark V Models were introduced with the “C” Headstock featuring a Red Safety Key Switch

Would that logically be a V-C, and yes I suspect some might then call a headstock pre-drilled and outfitted for the PowerPro drive train as a V-D (digital ready) headstock series.

Can you post a link to the V-B reference from Shopsmith that you reference above? I have looked for it, but nothing I searched with seemed to produce the results I wanted.

Thanks

Everett

chapmanruss

The 1st Mark 5 B headstock came out in October of 1955 when they added the rear access hole and discontinued the high speed lock. Serial Number 312507 and below are A headstocks. There have been changes to the B headstock over the years. The different holes to mount the speed changer.

The shopsmith reference for the 1984 change to the two bearing quill is

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/toolhistory.htm

It is the same Shopsmith History that I questioned at the beginning of this topic. And since we are on the history page again does anyone know when Magna American Corporation actually closed. The history page has it as 1964 but I have seen items dated later than that making me believe it was closer to 1967.

I look forward to seeing the documents Hans Goldschmidt brought to Shopsmith. I hope they make them available to us. But I don't think it will answer the question of when did Magna American close since he had already left working with the makers of the Shopsmith tools to pursue other interests.

everettdavis

I had no problem at all finding the quill update and other items cited in their history.

What I am having trouble isolating is the text citation where the term "V-B" appears in Shopsmith history on their website.

Where does that reference originate?

Everett

chapmanruss

I have a copy of a Spare Parts List done by Shopsmith Inc. that includes changes made to the Mark V over the years to guide the user to the correct current parts that are needed to replace older parts. It is plastic bound and starts with 10 pages of parts lists with some hand written notes on the printed and typed pages dating as late as 1990. This is the most interesting section historically. Next it includes the Mark V Models 500 and 510 Maintenance and Troubleshooting Manual section pages E-1 to E-34 followed by 55 pages of How to do different individual replacements and repairs. Of interest here, on page 6 in the paragraph about the change from the Gilmer to Poly "V" drive. It reads as follows -

11. During the changeover from the gilmer drive to the poly "V" drive (see item #1), they provided a special quill. These units are identified with the letter "C" after the serial number. If a replacement quill is required and your serial number has this designation, please contact us direct for instructions.

Apparently there is something different about the drive sleeve and/or the spindle in the quill for these first poly "V" units

I have not seen a Mark 5 with a "C" after the serial number, has anyone seen it?

chapmanruss

The term Mark V-B is not from the history, it is the model on the vent/serial number plate. Kind of like going from the 4" Jointer Model 620 to 620-C in the late 1950's. I have not seen any reference to what is was a designation for.

everettdavis

That's why I could not find it where I was looking. Thanks!

Here is a thread post discussing the fact that folks had been talking about theirs - http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?p=111213#p111213

Titled - What else .... "Mark V-B" posted 21 Feb 2012....

Interesting Shopsmith Forum Search results.... I searched for exactly the name of the thread 'Mark V-B' You guessed it, Shopsmith Forum Search found 2,012 pages of matches, none of which was the thread itself.

Why? They chose to ignore v and b (see screen shot)

Everett

Mark V-B.png

everettdavis

I also found that Ed wrote in post http://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?p=111255#p111255 relative to that V-B vent plate discusssion:

"I have 3 machines I can look at, so if this data is helpful in find what machines do NOT have a "B"

1976 plate says MARK 5 and uses Vandaila OH as the location

1980 plate says MARK V and uses Vandaila OH as the location

1991 plate says MARK V and uses Dayton OH as the location

The tool history has a serial number 190000 as the beginning of the 2-bearing quill, as of 10/1984. That is close to your date.

Ed"

That date range certainly takes my thought of Mark V-C coinciding with the C headstock out of the discussion.

This was in discussion relative to SS 194497 which was a Mark V-B owned by Culprit posted 21 Feb 2012.

Everett

Shopsmith_1984_serial SS 194497 Mark V-B owned by Culprit.JPG

everettdavis

It was still in use on SS 197064 - Early 1985 -

Everett

Shopsmith model and serial SS 197064 Mark V-B.jpg

chapmanruss

Looking through the pictures I have of Mark V/5 Vent/Serial Number Plates some things become evident. The Serial Number/Model Number stickers started with date coding. The stickers were moved away from the vent plate about 2002 to the side of the belt cover below the warning sticker. On machines with the sticker above the vent plate, adding the Hub guard will cover it. The Mark V-B designation appears to have ended with the introduction of the 510/505 Table system and calling the original the 500. The stickers include a number of different 6 digit Model Numbers (like 555861 - mine) and have different names above the Model and Serial Number lines. They include (for the ones I have pictures of),

MARK V

MARK V 510

Mark 510

MARK V 520 MODEL

MARK V 520 STATIC DISPLAY

MKV BASE UNIT

SOS Display Unit

STATIC DISPLAY UNIT

HEADSTOCK (SVC)

50TH ANNIVERSARY MKV - this is what is on mine date code 09-11-01

The picture below is a -B model number, don't know why.

070589 Mark V Escondido CA_c.jpg

chapmanruss

I mentioned before the Spare Parts List booklet from Shopsmith and attached is the front page for reference.

spare parts list plus.jpg

rsheffe

My father-in-Law has a green SS, but the serial number is very low: 85004. It was bought a LONG time ago...most likely in the 50's or 60's. See the pic. He says it is a Mark IV (4), but doesn't have any documentation. Any clue what this thing is?

Greenie Mark 4.gif

jpdalton

rsheffe wrote
My father-in-Law has a green SS, but the serial number is very low: 85004. It was bought a LONG time ago...most likely in the 50's or 60's. See the pic. He says it is a Mark IV (4), but doesn't have any documentation. Any clue what this thing is?

That’s a Mark 2 - a low-cost 5–in-1 machine produced by Magna in the 1958-1959 timeframe. It was meant to capture the budget-conscious market, but what they took out to achieve the cost savings unfortunately made for a pretty low caliber machine.

Here’s Magna president, Bob Chambers, standing with both a Mark 5 and a Mark 2, circa 1958.

jpdalton

chapmanruss wrote
It is the same Shopsmith History that I questioned at the beginning of this topic. And since we are on the history page again does anyone know when Magna American Corporation actually closed. The history page has it as 1964 but I have seen items dated later than that making me believe it was closer to 1967.

Russ - I can’t say for sure when they closed, but I can say they were still shipping parts as late as 1969.

chapmanruss

rsheffe,

You stated,

My father-in-Law has a green SS, but the serial number is very low: 85004. It was bought a LONG time ago...most likely in the 50's or 60's. See the pic. He says it is a Mark IV (4), but doesn't have any documentation. Any clue what this thing is?

The answer is in the picture below you posted in the other thread.

As it says right there on the headstock below the Motor adjusting handle, it is a Mark 2. These were made in the late 1950's into 1960. John's picture above shows Magna president, Bob Chambers in a promotional picture with both a Mark 2 and a Mark 5 about the time the Mark 2 was introduced in December 1957.

Below is what I have previously posted about the Mark 2

Shopsmith Mark 2

1958 to 1960 Mark 2 (5-in-1)

Introduced in December of 1957 by Magna Power Tool Corporation. This unit was made at Montgomery Ward’s request and sold primarily by them. It was not made to the same quality standards as the Mark 5 and was a lower cost alternative while still providing the same five functions. It has an 8” saw blade capacity instead of the 9” saw blade of the Mark 5 at the time. The Mark 2 uses a ½ HP or optional ¾ HP motor while the Mark 5 had a ¾ HP motor that later changed to a 1-1/8 HP motor. It uses two 2-step pulleys (a 2”/3” and a 3”/4”) to change the 7 speeds much like the Model 10E and 10ER instead of the variable speed of the Mark 5. The Way Tubes are shorter at 48” long. An interesting feature of the Mark 2 is the Headrest which is a pin-able version of the Base and Arm which functions much like the newer Mark 7 Double Tilt feature. It has lower quality locks to hold the headstock, carriage, etc. in place. They work like the locks found on the Model 10’s but are made of lower quality materials and finish. It has an extra saw blade slot on the main table (a feature added to the Mark 5 in the 1960’s and 1970’s). Some Mark 2’s have round metal bench tubes while others have rounded top rails made out of wood to connect the bench ends and legs together. It could be purchased with or without the bench. Instructions included making your own wood bench. The Miter looks similar but is different than the Mark 5’s as it has no angle stops and a shorter bar without the lock to hold it in place in the table slot. It has a narrow step shape extension table that creates its own fence and serves as the tailstock with a small block attachment. There are very few individual parts that are interchangeable with the Mark 5. The Mark 5 Headstock will fit on the Mark 2 frame. Even the table system can be changed to the Mark V or 7’s. The Mark 2 can also hold and power Add-a-tools later known as Special Purpose Tools made for the Mark 5/V’s and Mark VII/7’s. It has only one hub for powering SPT’s so different length posts may be needed for some SPT’s. It started out with the “Greenie” colors and later changed to gray.

At the time of its introduction the Mark 2 was priced at $179.90 (less bench and motor) compared to the Mark 5 at $329.50. The Bench legs with tubes cost $19.95 and the ½ HP motor was $34.95 making the total for a Mark 2 to be comparably equipped to the Mark 5 at $234.80 and still considerably less than the Mark 5.

The Mark 2 works more like it’s a Model 10 trying to look more like a Mark 5.

At some point it was sold with a Wards Powr-Kraft label replacing the Shopsmith logo/serial number plate.

Below is my restored Mark 2.

85959 Restored.jpg

chapmanruss

John,

You are correct in that Magna American Corporation was still in business into 1969. The proof is in that March 1969 Packing Slip. My guess is by that time they were only selling parts and accessories. The Mark 5 was discontinued in 1964 followed by the Mark VII and Sawsmith Radial Arm Saw by the end of 1968. Sales for the Mark 5 had been dwindling through the Yuba years and with the introduction of the Mark VII in 1963, Mark 5 sales dropped dramatically.

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