floating table inserts for V 500

djscruggs

I'm a new SS owner having bought an old 500 machine with a handfull of incredible accessories. This forum has been fantastic at walking me through dust collection and workshop setup, and I"ve basically been building my space.

At this point, my only disappointment is in the size of the tiny table saw table....an obvious complaint given that the 510 dramatically fixed that.

When I look at the option to upgrade to the 510, the ONLY real payoff to me is the table size. The package includes "floating inserts" for the table saw table.

1) Is it possible to just purchase an insert?

2) Are there other workarounds to give me a little more width?

3) Finally, I have a small extension to the table that inserts into the holes on the far right side. However, I"ve noticed that, though there is a "channel" for the rip fence to go into this extension, the fence does NOT slide readily from the table to the extension...its seems the channel on the extension is made differently from the table.

I've learned ago that most "newbie" problems have more to do with newbie education than they do with the tools themselves. Would love either some direction OR perhaps this is already addressed somewhere on the Woodsmith website (I looked, but just couldn't find!)

David

br549

In answer to your specific questions:

1.) The floating tables for a 505/510/520/Mark 7 table system can be purchased separately, but they "float" on rails which a 500 main table does not have. And due to table size differences, the 500 table cannot be modified to accommodate the rails. The newer table systems also use different fences.

2.)You say you have an extension table. This is the easiest way to get extra width.

There are two sizes for the extension tables ... the original is about 4" wide, the larger version is about twice that wide. Both versions use the same mounting posts. Shopsmith or eBay are a good source for the wider extension table (with or without the supporting posts). Others users have mounted two main carriages and tables side by side for extra table surface area. While this will limit other functions, if your main use is as a table saw, that might work for you. The second carriage could be left installed but the table removed to give more flexibility for other functions. I am unaware of any other workarounds, but I'm sure there have been others, including adding custom wood tables on top of the existing aluminum table.

3.)There are different style front rails for 500 tables and extension tables ... some are integral to the table and some are bolted on. You may have a mixture of the two styles. Where the main table and extension meet is tricky to get the fence to transition smoothly. The extension table can be adjusted to better align by loosing the 4 bolts that hold it to its posts. A wider extension table can help in that it gives more surface area. An auxillary face can be added to the fence to allow positioning the fence further away from the joint between the two tables, while achieving certain rip widths in that range between mounting the fence on the main table and mounting fence on the extension table. Attached is a picture of an auxillary fence face I use. This is my second version, with slot added for feather boards. This only gives 3/4" of additional offset, but a thicker face could give more ability to "span the gap" between the 2 tables.

Also, earlier Mark V tables had a second saw slot to the left of the main slot, which gave greater rip capacity while the fence was mounted to the table. I think this second slot was meant for smaller diameter blades, but still might be an option for you. This second slot was eliminated due to concerns that it weakened the main table, and a second slot should not be simply cut into a main table. This second slot also left the blade unprotected above and below the table with no saw guards, and also had no capability for dust collection.

Finally, any pictures that you could post would go a long way in helping to provide suggestions and advice ... and besides, we love pictures!

Aux fence with feather board.JPG

chapmanruss

In br549's post he referenced the main table with the second blade slot

Also, earlier Mark V tables had a second saw slot to the left of the main slot, which gave greater rip capacity while the fence was mounted to the table. I think this second slot was meant for smaller diameter blades, but still might be an option for you. This second slot was eliminated due to concerns that it weakened the main table, and a second slot should not be simply cut into a main table. This second slot also left the blade unprotected above and below the table with no saw guards, and also had no capability for dust collection.

The last sentence is not totally correct. The extra slot was added to the Mark 5 in 1960 after it was introduced as a feature on the Mark 2. It was discontinued in 1980. The Upper and Lower Saw Blade Guard Assembly part numbers 505627 & 505628 used during most of that time period mounts independently of the table and on the quill so it can be used for either slot on the table. This has a port for dust collection. The Saw Blade Guard assembly prior to this one has a square dust chute so no dust collection. The next Saw Blade Guard system came out after the elimination of the second saw blade slot and the Upper Guard attaches to the Table Post, so it cannot cover the second blade slot of the earlier table.

If you choose to make a table addition by covering the main table with a larger wood top you will lose cutting capacity equal to the thickness of the wood. In most cases this would not be a problem. You will also reduce where you can position the fence with a cover top in place. Before making changes try cutting some panels to width. Remember the Mark 5 (pre 1980) or Mark V with the original table system aka 500 has a 48" capacity. Just make sure you have any help you need to feed and hold the out-feed when cutting to do it safely. You may find that you can do cuts without additional tables. If you need to cut stock longer than 48", while using the fence, than an upgrade to the 510 or 520 Table/Fence system may be for you.

.

JPG

The thing to remember is the Mark 5 was a 9" saw.

garys

But, since I don't have any 9" blades I always use 10" ones.

JPG

garys wroteBut, since I don't have any 9" blades I always use 10" ones.

Not a problem unless thee lowers the table too far when a 10" blade is in the 'second' slot. That second slot was intended to be used with a 9" blade. The 10" blades came about with the Mark VII.

chapmanruss

JPG,

I have to ask for clarification purposes. Is the second slot in the "Goldies" table shorter than the main insert slot? Does it only take a 9" blade as was the standard for "Greenies" and "Goldies"? I know the slot in the table insert was longer to allow the splitter for the original Mark 5 upper guard to go through it. I have 2 Saw Blade Table inserts for the original Table System (500) but do not know when they were made and they both have a 10 1/2" opening. I have had only one "Goldie" that was made in October 1960 which I restored and sold. I didn't think to measure the table slots while I had it. The 10" blades became standard during the time Magna American was making the Shopsmith tools. As you said the Mark VII came out with a 10" blade and it's lower guard P/N 505705 has that capacity.

This is of course to satisfy my own curiosity. The original poster didn't say what Mark 5/V he has only that it is an old 500.

So David as you move forward with any restorations, repairs or additions to your Shopsmith remember it can make a difference in what you need to get to do a repair or upgrade depending on when your Shopsmith was made, be it a "Greenie" (1954-1960), "Goldie" (1960-1963) or Gray (1963 to end of Mark V 500 production).

.

JPG

That 'little' voice that reminds me of stupid things I have done due to insufficient attention paid to what I am doing says:

'Remember the day you used a 10" blade in the second slot?' :rolleyes:

'Remember what happened as the table was lowered almost all the way?' :D

I do;

The blade 'displaced' some material from the bottom of the table. :(

Kinda noisy also. :)

So 10" "OK" just do not go too deep.

P.S. IIRC the 10"blade came with the M VII only and NOT the Mark 5.

SS Inc. changed to 10" I assume with the removal of the second slot.

reible

My factory new 1976 had the two table slots and the 10" blade. I still have the table but it is in storage so I can't go look at it but I know I used the second slot and the 10" blade but how deep a cut I took with it that way I don't know. I don't recall a warning associated with using the second slot and the 10" blade either.

Somewhere I have the bulletin when shopsmith change the table, maybe 1980 ish. I know I have a couple of early 1980's without the second slot. Anyway the mention was an issue of needing a new casting which was done san the second slot.

Ed

benush26

Sorry to come to this late, but I thought I remembered something by Bill Mayo that involved adding a small attachment bar to the ends of the table (along the bottom edge I think), which allows another set of rectangular bars to extend out. Though I think the sole purpose was to have a place for the miter gauge to set, sort of like an outrigger. Not sure how the ends were supported to handle any weight, but I think there was another piece, front to back so the miter gauge could be clamped.

I would have tried a search, but Bill had so many helpful posts that it would take me months.

Not sure if that will help for what you want to accomplish, but it may be a place to start.

Be well,

Ben

br549

Since I brought up the second slot as an option, it is only fair that I add this additional information which reible mentioned in his post and that I could easily find. I received the "Notice of Important Product Modification" with my Mark V (500) purchased in 1980, which no doubt was included because page 7 of the Owner's Manual I received at the same time shows the second slot, but my table only came with one slot.

Shopsmith extra slot Product Modification.jpg

djscruggs

I am NEVER disappointed when I ask a question in this forum! I not only get the question answered, but i find out things I never knew I should ask. I do not yet know the "age" of my particular machine, but will find that out.

The distinction between 9" and 10" blades was also really helpful.

I actually purchased this particular shopsmith in spite of the small table, because it also came with a jointer, bandsaw, scrollsaw, a belt sander, and even a shaper attachment that I can't fully figure out. I've spent my whole work career looking forward to getting back to woodworking, so I wanted to get reacquainted with all of these tools, even though my primary interest is turning wood.

I haven't yet found the small table space to be a constraint, I was mainly noting that the table extension didn't readily line up with the main table....I figure that out, and I should be very happy for the first 32 projects.

I have a tiny workshop space, and this shopsmith was one way that I could justify outfitting a shop!

david

JPG

The original 'Greenie' table and aux table both had cast in rip fence rails.

Later Goldies had an extrusion bolted to the front of the main table while the aux table retained the cast in rail.

Because the cast in rails would not align sufficiently to allow the rip fence to bridge the two tables, the second slot was added to allow ripping in the range not possible because the rails did not align.

Along comes SS Inc. and the wider aux table was created which had the same extrusion for the rip fence on the front. Thus it was 'possible' to accurately bridge the gap between the two table so any rip width was possible. I say possible because it requires precise alignment/adjustment. Later the mount screws were changed to allow independent adjustment at all 4 mounting bolts.( a retroactive DIY project for Mark 5 narrow aux tables.)

The aux wide table changes were I surmise coincident with both the 510 introduction(wide aux and identical floating tables) which allowed the elimination of the 500 second slot.

This discussion pertains only to Mark 5 and Mark V 500 machines.

djscruggs

Great input guys. As I read your responses, I am reminded of how naive some questions from newbies like myself can be. Now that I've used the table saw a few times, I realize that the need for a wider table is, at best, in my distant future. For me, 48" ought to be just fine, and I've got a setup in my garage for using a jig for cutting larger pieces (ie of plywood) using my circular saw. So the big, wide honking pieces never make it into the basement shop!