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Shopsmith Model 10's What When and Where

jsburger

rpd wrote
chapmanruss wroteJohn,

You know more about them than I do since you have one. Besides yours, the only one I have seen pictures of is the one for sale on eBay Ron provided the link to. He (Karen's husband) has been trying to sell it off and on for a long time. Best guess, as we previously talked about, is that they were a prototype Metal Extension Table made when preparing to change from the wood one. One thing I noticed on both yours John and the one on eBay is the Bracket. Both have the adjustable one with oval slots for the mounting bolts. Is yours the Bracket that came with it? Below is a picture of the 4 different Table Brackets I have had. Note the 2nd one. Also they are in the order I believe that they came out based on the Serial Numbers they came with.

104-6R to C 2336 Extension Table Brackets r.jpg

The 2nd one with the round mounting holes is not a common one as far as I have seen.
Hard to tell for sure from the photo, but the bracket on the one John has appears to be the type 4 (long) bracket, If so it would possibly indicate it being late in production rather than early.

You were posting at the same time as I was. No, my bracket is the 3rd one, 7" long.

rpd

jsburger wrote
rpd wrote
chapmanruss wroteJohn,

You know more about them than I do since you have one. Besides yours, the only one I have seen pictures of is the one for sale on eBay Ron provided the link to. He (Karen's husband) has been trying to sell it off and on for a long time. Best guess, as we previously talked about, is that they were a prototype Metal Extension Table made when preparing to change from the wood one. One thing I noticed on both yours John and the one on eBay is the Bracket. Both have the adjustable one with oval slots for the mounting bolts. Is yours the Bracket that came with it? Below is a picture of the 4 different Table Brackets I have had. Note the 2nd one. Also they are in the order I believe that they came out based on the Serial Numbers they came with.

104-6R to C 2336 Extension Table Brackets r.jpg

The 2nd one with the round mounting holes is not a common one as far as I have seen.
Hard to tell for sure from the photo, but the bracket on the one John has appears to be the type 4 (long) bracket, If so it would possibly indicate it being late in production rather than early.
You were posting at the same time as I was. No, my bracket is the 3rd one, 7" long.

That clears that up then, :)

JimJimJim

I purchased a 10er #81734 from the original owner yesterday. I'm trying to upload photos of it, but am havin' issues. The tubes on this one seem thick and the extension table is aluminum.

I don't have a standard saw blade arbor for it. Any suggestions?

jsburger

JimJimJim wroteI purchased a 10er #81734 from the original owner yesterday. I'm trying to upload photos of it, but am havin' issues. The tubes on this one seem thick and the extension table is aluminum.

I don't have a standard saw blade arbor for it. Any suggestions?

First welcome to the forum. All of your questions will be answered here.

For pictures, see the "How to Post a Picture" topic at the top of this forum.

JimJimJim

I've got it backwards..
Thanks for the help.

extention table.jpg

end tubes.jpg

jsburger

Nice looking machine with a speed changer. Those are worth $150 by themselves. It should clean up very nicely. Search the forums, lots of pictures of refurbished Model 10's.

This is a picture of one that I did. 4 more to go.

JimJimJim

That's amazing; too pretty to put to work.

I'm going to pick up belts for the speed changer tomorrow.

Can I use the dado arbor for one blade table saw work, or do I need a standard shorter arbor?

The one on the right is a 1/2" shaper adapter. The other is the dado saw arbor the machine came with.

There's all sorts of odds and ends I have no idea where they go or do.

I always was intrigued by these machines and I wanted a big disk sander and drum sander then the 10er popped up during a drum sander search and here we are...

rpd

JimJimJim wrote
I purchased a 10er #81734 from the original owner yesterday. I'm trying to upload photos of it, but am havin' issues. The tubes on this one seem thick and the extension table is aluminum.

I don't have a standard saw blade arbor for it. Any suggestions?

Congratulations, and welcome aboard.

At that time there wasn't a dedicated saw arbor, there was just the 5/8" universal arbor. (and a 1/2" universal arbor)

The universal arbor came with three spacers, two thin and one thick, only two of which would be used at a time, (one thin and one thick for a saw blade, two thin for dado blades or thicker accessories.)

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JimJimJim

Sweet. That's what I have. Thank you very much.

Now I'm looking at bowl turning videos. I was curious about the face plates.

I had no intention of turning bowls....

rpd

JimJimJim wroteSweet. That's what I have. Thank you very much.

Now I'm looking at bowl turning videos. I was curious about the face plates.

I had no intention of turning bowls....

The file in this post has a list of resources for the 10E/ER. https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/viewtopic.php?p=268987#p268987

Download the manual, and most especially the file for Power Tool Woodworking For Everyone, which covers all the different functions of the 10ER in detail.

chapmanruss

Let me first add my welcome to the Forum. A manual and the book Ron referred to can be found on the Google Drive in the Maintenance and Repair section under the topic Shopsmith Large Format Drawings, Illustrations and More by Everett Davis which is one of the first threads. There is also a lot of additional information to be found there.

Use the later manual located there if you do not have one.

It looks like you have both face plate sizes made for the Shopsmiths in the drawer. With them you can start doing some bowl turning. Having the Speed Changer will help with Lathe work by having the slower speeds. One of the nice things about these older Model 10's are they have the same diameter spindle and quill as the new Mark V 520 and Mark 7 made today.

I encourage you to start your own thread and keep us updated on your progress. Having your own thread would be a good place to ask questions as you go along. It will also keep your information together and not get lost mixed in with the other information here or other threads if posted in them. I recommend this to anyone that is new here and wants to find out more information that is specific to their Shopsmith. If you search the Forum you will find many threads like that. I did one titled New To Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077 that followed the restoration of one of the original Model 10E Shopsmith tools made.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maintenance-and-repair-f10/new-to-me-model-10e-serial-number-1077-t21347.html

JimJimJim

I will start a thread a bit later. Thanks Russ.

chapmanruss

Let’s talk about the Headstock. There were several changes to them during the production of the Model 10’s. Some were minor changes that didn’t require changes to other attached parts and some were more prominent. Versions 1 through 4 can all use the same parts attached to it although some of the parts themselves changed. The Spring Housing comes to mind and the addition of the Depth Indicator Ring. The only difference between version 2 and 3 is the location of the cast on block for the Quill Return Spring Housing. A big change and one that gave us a date discussed earlier was the double to single Wedge Locks. One major change that is not readily seen was to the last version of the Headstock. It was also the longest used Headstock during the Model 10 production. The 7th version of the Headstock was the only one to have an opening behind the Logo/Serial Number Plate. It was commonly attached with what was called in the parts list as a Parker Kalon Pin, No. 6x5/16” in the top hole and a standard 8-32 x 1/2" round head screw in the bottom hole. The opening was provided to make installing the switch easier although the Logo Plate was attached with two pins at first. See page 5 of the FEB 52, SEP 52 or MAR 53 Owner's Manual for more information on this. These are the last three Manuals I have copies of and the only ones to show installing the switch that way. There is a 0451 Manual I do not have but the 0151 Manual and earlier ones have the switch installed through the bottom of the Headstock. Anyone having the 0451 Manual can let us know what it says.

The change from Headstock version 6 to 7 occurred between S/N R 64000 and R 64381 for Model 10ER’s made in the Western Plant. The above Serial Numbers are from 10ER’s I have owned. Of course, as discussed previously, the change would have occurred on lower Serial Numbers for 10ER’s made in the Eastern Plant. It is again these changes in the tool when referenced against the Manuals that can help us put dates to when a group of serial numbers were made. Unfortunately, I do not have copies of all the Model 10E & 10ER Manuals. I know there should be one from November 1951 since that is when the part numbers changed but I have never seen any reference to it. It is possible that one does not exist and Magna simply supplied the Part Number Conversion Chart with the earlier Manual until the next one came out. There are other Manuals I don’t have which keeps me from making a timeline for changes in the Model 10’s. That and the fact that before 1950 the Manuals have no date on them.

Below are the differences in the Headstocks that I used to define the 7 versions. They are differences I have physically seen on Model 10’s I have owned. This does not include the preproduction version as seen in Fig. 1 from the original Manual.

Version 1 – Pin for Quill Return Spring Housing instead of cast on block or blocks as on all later Headstocks. Double Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks, Switch hole is lower on the Headstock.

Version 2 - Narrow (3/16”) cast on block, top only for Quill Return Spring Housing. Double Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks. Switch hole closer to Logo Plate and the same on all subsequent versions.

Version 3 - Narrow (3/16”) cast on block, bottom only for Quill Return Spring Housing. Double Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks.

Version 4 - Narrow (3/16”) cast on blocks for Quill Return Spring Housing. Double Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks & Keyed Quill Lock.

Version 5 - Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill Return Spring Housing. Double Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks & Keyed Quill Lock,

Version 6 - Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill Return Spring Housing. Single Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks, (Began with S/N R53198 and ER40908 from Dealers Manual Spare Parts list. First shown in Owner’s Manual 0451 Copyright 1951.)

Version 7 - Wide (3/8”) cast on blocks for Quill Return Spring Housing. Single Wedge Quill and Way Tube Locks. Access hole behind Logo Plate.

chapmanruss

Something I neglected in the above post about Headstocks is that the early version 7 Headstocks with the hole behind the Logo/Serial Number Plate is that at first the plate was attached with two pins instead of the single pin and a screw. S/N R64381 and S/N 69236 were attached with two pins. S/N 76928 had a pin and a screw. Now I said above that the hole was to access the switch for installation but the early Headstock version 7 units didn’t have access when they had two pins holding the plate in place. So was the hole originally intended to access the switch as referenced in the later manuals or was that an afterthought. Maybe the hole was a way of lightening the Headstock’s weight a little bit.

A final thought on Headstocks. All the first hand comparisons I have on the Shopsmith Model 10E and 10ER are from units made in the Western Plant. I am pretty sure that living in the Portland Oregon area all the ones I have owned or seen were made there. I haven't owned any with the E or ER serial number prefix. Did all of these changes occur to units made in the Eastern Plant too. For any of you having Model 10 Shopsmith’s made in the Eastern Plant I encourage you to add any information as to changes made on your unit. Especially comparing Headstock versions 2 and 3 as these were almost identical and the only exception was the placement of the block that keeps the Quill Spring Housing in place.

rpd

Hi Russ

This unit just came up for sale on the FB group

Thought you might be interested in the pics as it was made in the eastern plant. 🙂

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chapmanruss

Thanks for the post Ron. It has version 4 of the Headstock which includes the Quill Depth Indicator and the keyed double wedge Quill Lock. It has the version 1 Base, Headrest and Belt Cover. The Extension Table is the Metal version with the rear locking Fence. It is these versions of the parts on the Model 10's when they changed from the 10E to the 10ER. For the Eastern Plant the lowest S/N I have for a 10ER (ER on the Logo/Serial Number Plate) is ER18361 and for the Western Plant it is S/N R31007. There does not seem to be any specific change made to the Model 10's at the time they changed from the 10E to the 10ER. Maybe it is when they were running out of 10E Logo/Serial Number Plates and had to make more they decided there had been enough changes to warrant calling it Revised.

chapmanruss

One of the things Magna Engineering Corporation did when designing the Mark 5 which replaced the Model 10ER was to design new related products to still work on the Model 10’s either by design or using adapters. Most manufacturers would simply abandon the old designs and make their new product. Although not referred to as SPT’s back then, the Magna Add-a-Tool Line started from the 4” Jointer Model 4E. It was made for the Model 10’s but was easily adapted to the Mark 5 by changing the Base/Out Feed Table casting adding the mounting holes for the tubes. The 4” Jointer Model 620 was out for use on the Mark 5 and could still be mounted on the Model 10’s using the Jointer Mounting kit including the special Jointer Headrest. To show how well the Shopsmith and related tools have kept the ability to be upgraded all the Jointer upgrades made up to now can be added to the Model 620 4” Jointer going back to 1954. All but the dust chute can even be added to the Model 4E Jointer. Some parts can be replaced individually while others must be done as an assembly. Other Add-a-Tools, or SPT’s as they are now known, followed including the Jig Saw, Sprayer/Air Compressor, Belt Sander and Bandsaw. Magna made a set of two adapters and a special Headstock Pulley to use these additional SPT’s on the Model 10’s. Of note, none of these Add-a-Tools were called Shopsmith but were referred to as Magna Tools. Shopsmith was the name of the 5 in 1 Tools, the Model 10E and 10ER plus the Mark 5 and so on until 1972 when Shopsmith Inc. formed to restart making the Mark 5, SPT’s and related accessories.

Magna did stop making the Model 10 Jig Saw but with the Power Mount Adapter Kit the new Add-a-Tool Jig Saw could be used. The first Power Mount Adapter Kit had only the “A” Adapter plus the special Headstock Pulley and instructions for using the Jig Saw and Sprayer/Air Compressor. I guess it was expected that the Jointer would be mounted with it’s original Headrest Mounting kit which was still available. With more Add-a-Tools coming out the “B” Adapter and special Jointer Mounting Tubes were added to the Kit and instructions were updated to include the Jointer plus the new Belt Sander and new Band Saw. The original Headrest Jointer Mounting Kit was then discontinued.

The Spindle end diameter size and design plus the Quill diameter did not change with the introduction of the Mark 5 either so newer attachments for the Mark 5 will still work on the Model 10’s. One of the early Mark 5 Accessories, the Shaper Fence was actually available before the introduction of the Mark 5 and fits the Model 10’s. It’s original instruction manual shows it in use on a Model 10ER. The Lathe Drive Center has had only two changes made to it since the introduction with the Model 10E. The set screw size changed in late 1953 and the black protective coating was added in 1964 as with many spindle mount accessories. I can use my Lathe Drive Center that came with my Model 10E S/N 1077 on my Mark 7 or a current one on my 10E. Items still made today will work but, with respect to Shopsmith, I must add this - Shopsmith legal disclaimer - current arbors and attachments are for use on Mark V and Mark 7 machines and not intended for use on previous models. There are accessories made for the Mark series tools that do not work on the Model 10’s. Spacing of the Way Tubes and other part spacing does not allow for proper mounting or alignment of some accessories. There are still two parts, not including common hardware, that come on new Mark V 520’s and Mark 7’s today that are the same as those from the Model 10’s. They are the Quill Return Spring and the Quill Bumper Ring. That is parts designed over 70 years ago still put in new tools today. Designed to last with designs that last. That’s longevity and that’s Shopsmith.

One last thing I would like to add today is Happy Birthday to my wonderful Wife who puts up with my Shopsmith Hobby. :)

wn8lundy

I just acquired a 10e, serial number 1382. I'm guessing it's one of the very first produced. Very excited to begin my restoration. It looks to be in great shape for being 73 years young.

rpd

wn8lundy wrote
I just acquired a 10e, serial number 1382. I'm guessing it's one of the very first produced. Very excited to begin my restoration. It looks to be in great shape for being 73 years young.

Welcome, and congratulations.

Wow, a very low number indeed. Serial numbers started at 1000 (or 1001), and the the run was 250.

This is a file of links to online resources that I put together,

Shopsmith 10ER Resources.pdf

chapmanruss

wn8lundy,

Welcome to the Forum. S/N 1382 would have been made in 1947 shortly after the original order of 250 for the West Coast Montgomery Ward stores were made. Just curious as to where it was purchased and what all came with it. Especially original parts. Changes to the Model 10E started almost immediately after the first group. The two items I would be most interested in is pictures of the Headstock and the Lathe Tool Rest. Another item, is the Quill Return Spring Housing aluminum or steel?

I would like to invite you to start your own thread to document what you have and your progress on whatever your Shopsmith Model 10E tool needs. I did one for my Model 10E S/N 1077 which is at the link below. It's a great way to keep all the information in one place for your Shopsmith.

https://www.shopsmith.com/ss_forum/maintenance-and-repair-f10/new-to-me-model-10e-serial-number-1077-t21347.html

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