Schedule a Meeting · Talk to a real woodworker: +1 937-890-5197 · 8:00AM – 4:30PM ET

Bandsaw Table Installation and Alignment

dusty

Enticed by two recent threads initiated by paulrussell, I decided to take a look at my bandsaw.

In the thread it was stated that the table was shimmed when attached to the trunnions. Sure enough, I look at my table and between the trunnions and the table I find a "variety of flat washers. Six washers in total and no two of them are the same thickness. On the infeed trunnion each mounting bolt had two washers. On the outfeed side each bolt had only one washer each.

Washers versus shims. What is the difference other than possibly intent? What were the shims supposedly doing?

Why might this have been done.

Now, though I do not remember, I must have done this. But why would I?

The manual states to install one shim on each bolt between the

trunnion and the table

. Then it goes on to direct the use one a

flat washer

between the bolt head and the nut. No where does it state or imply the use of additional shims.

paul wrote " - Shimmed table perpendicular to blade (not really a mod since it is in the manual)"

Where? I don't find this.

paulrussell

paul wrote " - Shimmed table perpendicular to blade (not really a mod since it is in the manual)"

Where? I don't find this.

Page 27 of my manual:

dusty

paulrussell wrote
paul wrote " - Shimmed table perpendicular to blade (not really a mod since it is in the manual)"

Where? I don't find this.

Page 27 of my manual:

20210228_092448.jpg

Well that is certainly clear enough but that is not in my manual, at least not on page 27. However, I will not have to more carefully read my manual. I found several things in my manual that I have never read before.

I did reassemble my bandsaw and checked the table to blade relationships. The table, without the "shims" that I took out, was way out of alignment. I inserted two additional "shims" and slightly over corrected. I'll resolve that later.

I am going to dismantle again, pull the "shims" and measure and then reassemble with proper values. This time I am going to replace backup bearings too. Mine are noisier than they need to be. They do not squeal yet but the noise is annoying. I sure wish I could find a solution to this that would last. New bearings are much, much quieter but that does not last long.

Thank you for providing the incentive to look into this.

BS Table of Contenets..PNG

garys

Honestly, I've neve looked at table alignment on my bandsaw. My Dad bought it new back in 1981 so he would have been the person who set it up and aligned it. My Dad had a reputation for doing things once and getting them right. Since the saw still works perfectly after almost 40 years, it is probably safe to say he did it right so it doesn't have to be done over. Shims and washers don't move or change thickness so I'll just keep cutting with it and not have to align it.

It is great to own tools that just work and don't need to be fussed with instead of using them for what they were made.

dusty

garys wrote Honestly, I've neve looked at table alignment on my bandsaw. My Dad bought it new back in 1983 so he would have been the person who set it up and aligned it. My Dad had a reputation for doing things once and getting them right. Since the saw still works perfectly after almost 40 years, it is probably safe to say he did it right so it doesn't have to be done over. Shims and washers don't move or change thickness so I'll just keep cutting with it and not have to align it.

It is great to own tools that just work and don't need to be fussed with instead of using them for what they were made.

Yours is probably the right approach. Unfortunately for me I don't operate that way. Never have and now never will. "Can't teach an old dog new tricks". You can try but I am proof that it won't work. I do "occasionally learn from my own mistakes.

garys

I look at a bandsaw much like I look at a hand saw. The blade needs to cut perfectly perpendicular "side to side" . With a handsaw, that depends on the person holding the saw straight. On a bandsaw, that depends on the table sitting perfectly perpendicular to the sides of the blade.

The face of the blade in relationship to the wood isn't important. In fact, with a handsaw, I pretty much always intentionally angle the blade in relation to the face of the wood simply because it seems less prone to binding in the wood that way. With a bandsaw, I don't feel that that same angle is critical either for the same reason.

I do wonder if the "front to back" alignment of the bandsaw table to the rear edge of the blade might change with the different widths of the blades used? Would a 5/8" blade align exactly the same "front to back" with the table as a 1/4" blade.

I would probably have to try my different blades myself to answer that question.

dusty

garys wrote I look at a bandsaw much like I look at a hand saw. The blade needs to cut perfectly perpendicular "side to side" . With a handsaw, that depends on the person holding the saw straight. On a bandsaw, that depends on the table sitting perfectly perpendicular to the sides of the blade.

The face of the blade in relationship to the wood isn't important. In fact, with a handsaw, I pretty much always intentionally angle the blade in relation to the face of the wood simply because it seems less prone to binding in the wood that way. With a bandsaw, I don't feel that that same angle is critical either for the same reason.

I do wonder if the "front to back" alignment of the bandsaw table to the rear edge of the blade might change with the different widths of the blades used? Would a 5/8" blade align exactly the same "front to back" with the table as a 1/4" blade.

I would probably have to try my different blades myself to answer that question.

I am inclined to agree with your analogy a hand saw.

I did "reshim" and I am close to having the blade square to the table in both directions. However, I quit trying to get closer because I can't find the combination of shims that would get me closer. The way it is now the bottom surface of a board contacts the blade a wee bit before it contacts the top (the infeed edge of the table would have to be raised a tiny bit to achieve that).

paulrussell

garys wrote I look at a bandsaw much like I look at a hand saw. The blade needs to cut perfectly perpendicular "side to side" . With a handsaw, that depends on the person holding the saw straight.

You don't cut curves with a handsaw.

The issue is when cutting curves in thicker materials, the walls are not perpendicular. For me that would be puzzle and bandsaw boxes.

Regarding blade thickness changing the angle. This is true to an extent. However I will not be cutting accurate circles with my 1/2 and 5/8" resaw blades. I have trued my table to a 3/16 blade, and verified that the 1/8 and 1/4 are also square.

jsburger

garys wrote I look at a bandsaw much like I look at a hand saw. The blade needs to cut perfectly perpendicular "side to side" . With a handsaw, that depends on the person holding the saw straight. On a bandsaw, that depends on the table sitting perfectly perpendicular to the sides of the blade.

The face of the blade in relationship to the wood isn't important. In fact, with a handsaw, I pretty much always intentionally angle the blade in relation to the face of the wood simply because it seems less prone to binding in the wood that way. With a bandsaw, I don't feel that that same angle is critical either for the same reason.

I do wonder if the "front to back" alignment of the bandsaw table to the rear edge of the blade might change with the different widths of the blades used? Would a 5/8" blade align exactly the same "front to back" with the table as a 1/4" blade.

I would probably have to try my different blades myself to answer that question.

It is very important if you use the band saw to cut tenons.

paulrussell

jsburger wrote
It is very important if you use the band saw to cut tenons.

Yes.

And another example from Nick Engler's book "Using the Bandsaw"

chapmanruss

Dusty,

Like you I didn't see aligning the table to the rear of the blade in the current Manual dated 09/03 which can also be found here on the Shopsmith website. So if it is there I missed it too. I do see the placement of shims between the table and trunnions during assembly on page 10 but that simple places the table in the same plane as not having them there since I believe all the shims are the same. My Owners Manual dated 6/95 has the shims during assembly on page 9 but again nothing on that rear blade to table alignment unless I missed it there too.

The Manual I have dated 12/82 has the same information on page 27 as the one from paulrussell. I have two of the original Bandsaw Manuals copyright 1956 from 3:56 and 9:56 that does not mention it either but those Manuals are only 12 pages long so not as detailed as later Manuals. None of these three Manuals show shims between the trunnions and the table in the parts diagram.

Was this a cast iron vs. aluminum table thing? Maybe it is felt that the table is close enough without it as in gary's hand saw comparison. I don't know but now I will have to spend some time checking my 1956, 1996 and 2006 Bandsaws I currently have. I would like to know the alignment on them especially before I sell the 2006 which is an extra one.

Before anyone asks why I would sell the 2006 and keep the 1996, I have the 1996 upgraded with the fence, extension, circle cutter (all of which could be moved) and current cover with the window and tension adjustment slot so the only real difference is the 1996 has the knobs instead if the screws to hold the cover on which after having both I prefer.

edma194

My bandsaw was set up when I got it with the blade 90 degrees to the table front to back and side to side. It would definitely bind making bandsaw boxes if it was angled. I'm installing Carter Guides and removing the table (iron) for cleaning anyway and I'm going to make sure it is as true as possible.

reible

Boy have we beat the dead horse with this over the years.

Two points to remember, one the band saw is designed with the angle and yes you can if you need to adjust it out. The other part of the page 27 instructions are worth noting:

This doesn't need to be a one time event, I have shims which I can take in and out by loosening the screws and either adding or removing them. For me they are out most of the time.

Second, static measuring the angle is not 100% accurate. The upper guide bearings should not be engaged until cutting, so the top of the blade will actually move what ever distance that is. It might be very minor but if you are looking to get those cuts to be right on you will have to check.....

edma194

reible wrote Second, static measuring the angle is not 100% accurate. The upper guide bearings should not be engaged until cutting, so the top of the blade will actually move what ever distance that is. It might be very minor but if you are looking to get those cuts to be right on you will have to check.....

Yes, whatever angle you want has to be measured with a piece of wood pushing the blade back against the bearing.

I understand how that angle can be useful, but I haven't found the machine bogging down as I start to cut. If you are cutting shapes you need to start in slowly anyway. The thinner the stock the less this will matter, an angle in the blade I think would be barely noticeable with 1/2" or smaller stock. Even if you are cutting jigsaw puzzles the pieces will still fit together.

garys

This is all good information, and to me, it suggests that depending on the type of cutting you do, it could be advantageous to either have the blade sitting at 90 degrees front to back if you do scroll type cutting, or to have it angled a bit for heavy resawing of thick material.

jsburger

garys wrote This is all good information, and to me, it suggests that depending on the type of cutting you do, it could be advantageous to either have the blade sitting at 90 degrees front to back if you do scroll type cutting, or to have it angled a bit for heavy resawing of thick material.

Also given the differences in the manuals it seems that SS has changed their thinking on this over the years. FWIW, mine has been shimmed to 90º for 20+ years with no problems.

garys

I pulled my book out for a look. My bandsaw was made in 1981, and the original 1981 manual is only a couple of pages so it has no information on this subject. I also have a copy of a newer manual dated 2003 in my binder. It also appears to be different from the pages posted here from another 03 manual.

I believe there was also a change in the bandsaw itself. Didn't the earlier versions have the wheels aligned straight with each other? And, aren't the newer ones set up with the top wheel tilted a few degrees? Perhaps changes in the saw itself caused Shopsmith to suggest different setup.

paulrussell

garys wrote I believe there was also a change in the bandsaw itself. Didn't the earlier versions have the wheels aligned straight with each other? And, aren't the newer ones set up with the top wheel tilted a few degrees? Perhaps changes in the saw itself caused Shopsmith to suggest different setup.

Unless I am terribly mistaken, all Shopsmith (Magna) bandsaws have utilized the same canted upper wheel with tracking bearing.

The most significant changes I am aware of are

-- cast iron to aluminum table

-- switch from rollers to bearings

-- adding cover adjustment hole and window

-- adding dust collector port

-- nylon bolt in upper guide block to limit lateral play

As long as the horse is still dead a few more whacks won't hurt it.

Regarding bogging starting thick cuts:

The Shopsmith Mark V has had four different motor configurations --originally 3/4hp, upgraded to 1 1/8hp in 1961, Now the PowerPro motor provides 1.75/2 horsepower. What bogs a 3/4 HP machine is butter to a PowerPro.

Not mentioned in this thread is that once a back-angled blade is fully engaged into the cut, the cutting load is slightly _more_ than a perpendicular blade. Pythagorean worked that all out for us. Admittedly, that penalty is slight given the shallow angle of the blade.

And finally (for me at least):

The bandsaw is an incredibly versatile machine, which is utilized differently in every shop, using different power trains. It is no surprise that what is a critical adjustment for one user could be detrimental for another. There is nothing wrong with an angled blade, nor with a back-canted blade; it all depends upon your particular needs.

chapmanruss

I appears Pandora's Box has been opened again. So since it was mentioned above about the bevel to the upper wheel I will add this from a previous post.

Upper Wheel angle - From Everett January 15 2016 in a forum post.

I just got off the phone with Shopsmith Customer Service and was told that the 2° Bevel was added in April 1984 to the upper wheel. Prior to that, they said they were flat like the lower wheel. That may answer some of the questions since many of us have Bandsaws from early and later production.

There was a great amount of discussion about that angle in a recent thread.

As for the Manuals and what they include, there certainly has been significant changes to them over the years which does not always correspond to changes to the tools. Much of this is due to legal needs to protect the manufacturer. Almost 3 pages of the current Bandsaw Manual cover safety whereas the original 1956 12 page Bandsaw Manual has no Safety section. More in-depth descriptions of functions and operations are now included. I see the Manuals as a good reference when I have questions about the tools, both old and new Manuals for both old and new tools.

Dusty,

Sorry this has gone a bit off topic but as you know it happens.

What I am understanding here is it appears for some uses it is okay or maybe even better to have that slight angle, front to back, for the blade while in other cases 90° to the table would be preferred. Maybe I should keep the extra Bandsaw and have one set with the angle and the other at 90° to the table.

dusty

Yesterday I reassembled the band saw that I had been working with. New bearings and table realigned to 90 degrees to the table. Time will tell. The other band saw is slightly off 90 degrees.