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Tablesaw Power feed

endgrainguy

Offending Oliver link removed. It doesn't attract any warning from my browser.

Small band saws present minor, easily solved issues. As standard construction, the Little Proteus requires 6 -5/8" or so under the guides for getting into optimal resaw position, slicing veneers. So on 6" resaw height band saws the blade guides get in the way for much of what you'd like to do. You could use it at standard construction further in front of the blade than ideal, or cutting thick stock in half with that configuration on 6" resaw height band saw.

You can just take off the upper wheel, ( a few second job) and then you've got the lower 2"high wheel doing all the work, -not a bad set up. The upper wheel only comes into play for stock thicker than 4 5/8". A better solution is to saw off some of the upper wheel, which I can do at no cost if you specify it. Then you could still take off the upper wheel for stock thinner than 4 5/8" allowing you to get the upper blade guides a bit lower, and for stock thicker than 4 5/8" you get the upper wheel pushing and feeding at the top of the board. These photos show the issues on a Delta 12" saw with 6" resaw height.

One of the advantages of the rig is it's easy to notch out or modify to configure for odd situations.

endgrainguy

Another issue on resawing is lowest speed varies from drill to drill -- a lot! Several allow feed speeds as slow as about 2 fpm, which is actually about right, maybe even a little fast for a SS resawing 6" of hardwood. See: https://powerfeeder.alladd.com/about%20_drills.html

One of my customers, not content with the 4 feet per minute his Dewalt drill gave him, added a third stage of gear reduction, a classic case of thinking outside of the box. I've refined that modification, and will be adding it as an option for an extra $20 or so. For six inch resaw capacity saws it will require two modifications of the pesky feed roller. It changes the gear reduction from 3.8 to ten, so divide those fpm in the chart in the above link by 2.5 with this modification. Even slowed down tenfold, the drill can still give you feed speeds way faster than you can use.

third stage.jpg

tucsonguy

I'm in the process of finishing assembling one of Al's Little Proteus Power Feeders. Someone asked about riving knives. The standard Shopsmith riving knife is an issue and you would have to check clearance when using it. If you have the non-through-cut riving knife, however, you will have no issues at all.

Installing on the Shopsmith fence is easy (I just substituted two 1.5 inch 3/8-16 bolts with a washer, mounted on 2 standard t-nuts, and it fit perfectly).

BuckeyeDennis

I’m looking foward to to your report, tucsonguy. Although it’s not a problem for a modern Shopsmith fence, a lot of table saw fences don’t have clamps at the back of the saw. So a conventional feeder that mounts to the saw table will tend to deflect the fence when it applies side pressure to the workpiece. Not so with a fence-mounted feeder. All the side-pressure stresses are internal to the fence and feeder, and the lack of a rear fence clamp is not an issue.

endgrainguy

All the side-pressure stresses are internal to the fence and feeder,

Perfect description of the fence issue. The Shopsmith 520 fences are , at least in theory, perfect vehicles for the Little Proteus. They have a wide enough platform, and they clamp in back. The 510 fence will require a plywood plate down to the table on the right side of the fence, an easy modification to the feeder holder.

It's true, at least in my testing, that rear fence deflection is not a problem with a fence mounted feeder. It's uncanny , if you're used to the deflection caused by a conventionally mounted feeder. The SS fence, and theoretically, the fences on the most common of the current big box job site table saws, and both of those tools' miter guage slots, are ready for the Lil Pro to just pop on (with the right bolts or tee nuts), without the same concerns of fence lifting (unlike on T square fences, that cost as much as job site table saws, which have no rear clamp). I'm working on the hardware to offer an inexpensive option for mounting with people's purchase...

There was a fence mounted feeder made by a power tool company called Delta/Rockwell back in the 80's. It would have benefitted from a contemporary cordlesss drill as its power source. As it was, it was too fast for the market it targeted, and not robust enough for its speed. Here's a guy who updated one a few years ago, and loves it: http://mike-stalkfleet.com/blog/2017/12/13/table-saw-power-feeder/

algale

Fairly late to this thread but I have to say I am super impressed with what Al has invented with his Little Proteus! If I didn't already have a big investment in the Jessem table saw guides, I think I'd buy one! It sure would have saved me a lot of monotony when I was ripping hundreds of board feet of 1/4 wide x 3/4 cedar strips for my canoe!!

endgrainguy

With power feed, you can rip strips for boats from 3/4" cedar like that 2 at a time with 2 saw blades and spacer. Best to use 7-1/4" 1/6" kerf blades, and splitters in custom insert for both blades.

This guy used 4 blades at a time! https://smallboatsmonthly.com/article/gang-sawing/

I used to often cut 5/8" squares for my end grain cutting boards:

https://www.alladd.com/cutting-boards-large-square/index.html

from hardwood, 2 at a time, with the baby feeder, and I tried this with mine and it worked at least as well.

A set up can be made with two routers to do the bead and cove in one pass :

edma194

Cool video showing the Proteus ripping a long board on a Shopsmith with extension infeed and outfeed tables:

DLB

Wow! I have questions, is he a member here? I know his name is familiar. Really long 520 fence, 5' he says, wondering how he did that as I've always ASSUMEd that the SS version would lack some rigidity. And this version evidently only uses the front lock, or at least does not use the normal rear lock.(?) Must be kinda rigid cause that lock is way out on the infeed extension plus, of course, he's using a power feed. His infeed extensions are functionally similar but unlike the SS version, I wonder if the two (L/R) pieces are the same. Plus: "All with dust collection and HEPA filtration of the Powerpro headstock." Details! It ain't often that I think a utube video was too short or skimmed too fast through the details.

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote Wow! I have questions, is he a member here? I know his name is familiar. Really long 520 fence, 5' he says, wondering how he did that as I've always ASSUMEd that the SS version would lack some rigidity. And this version evidently only uses the front lock, or at least does not use the normal rear lock.(?) Must be kinda rigid cause that lock is way out on the infeed extension plus, of course, he's using a power feed. His infeed extensions are functionally similar but unlike the SS version, I wonder if the two (L/R) pieces are the same. Plus: "All with dust collection and HEPA filtration of the Powerpro headstock." Details! It ain't often that I think a utube video was too short or skimmed too fast through the details.

- David

Yeah, it is Geoffrey Baker (same guy that makes the purple splined hub drill press handles). Not revealing his identity for the first time or anything, i.e. you can see his name referenced in the thread below. He is quite active on FB when I lurked there in the past. Often find useful tips/tricks or things in his shop that I want to copy, e.g. he has the best PowerPro ventilation setup that I have seen anywhere. :)

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?p=270300#p270300

RFGuy

edma194 wrote Cool video showing the Proteus ripping a long board on a Shopsmith with extension infeed and outfeed tables:

I got this video in my YouTube feed this morning that goes through the pricing options on this DIY power feeder. I figured I would share it here in case anyone is considering this purchase. It gives a lot more detail than you can find on the website. I am just a hobbyist woodworker and not doing production work so I don't need this. It looks reasonable if you already own a CNC and want to build it yourself, but if not the pricing is nearly the same as a Grizzly Baby Power Feeder. You have to provide some of your own hardware and lumber and a drill so factor that in when making this purchase.

tucsonguy

DLB wrote Wow! I have questions, is he a member here? I know his name is familiar. Really long 520 fence, 5' he says, wondering how he did that as I've always ASSUMEd that the SS version would lack some rigidity. And this version evidently only uses the front lock, or at least does not use the normal rear lock.(?) Must be kinda rigid cause that lock is way out on the infeed extension plus, of course, he's using a power feed. His infeed extensions are functionally similar but unlike the SS version, I wonder if the two (L/R) pieces are the same. Plus: "All with dust collection and HEPA filtration of the Powerpro headstock." Details! It ain't often that I think a utube video was too short or skimmed too fast through the details.

- David

Hi David, I am a member here, just don't spend as much time here as I do on the FB group. You might find a lot of useful info (HEPA filtration among others) on my youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp7QgDE6eTU8FOmVRCbPrTw

1) The fence uses the Shopsmith Fence Extender, which they sell. It's basically just another extrusion exactly like the fence extrusion - which you can mount to the fence either vertically (for tall applications) or horizontally, I as I do in the video. The fence lock is on the front infeed accessory table. I keep it rigid by using 2 3' long bars which I precision ground (using the conical disk) to fit in the top t-slots of the fence, and made locking ends using some tnut washers and a bolt. (You are right, the SS versions lacks rigidity because they just supply you with regular tnuts, which won't keep it rigid at all.) But my bars keep the fence absolutely straight. My infeed is a homemade system using 2 acc tables, 2 aluminum bars on both sides. It is held in place by an adjustable crossbeam which mounts to the bottom of the main table leg so the entire system raises and lowers with the table! I use extension legs in the video for additional stability.

- Geoff Baker

tucsonguy

This is my video demonstrating the Proteus power feed. You can see more videos on my youtube channel at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp7QgDE6eTU8FOmVRCbPrTw

I am in the process of evaluating Al Ladd's "Little Proteus" power feeder. I don't want to get into a full review until I have time and other projects aren't getting in the way, but I wanted to mention a couple of things.

You will want a non-thru-cut riving knife to use the feeder properly - the taller standard knife tends to get in the way.

If you angle the Proteus, it will help keep the work against the feed, as the wheels will push it in. You may want to add featherboards to ensure there is no movement, however, unless the Proteus is locked down tight, because if it's not tight, there is the possibility of movement of the board. I noticed no fence deflection even when applying downwards pressure on the Proteus with the screw handle; the wooden frame of the Proteus allows it to twist somewhat, which in this case is probably a good thing...

The Proteus works well and certainly fed the wood through at a decent rate of speed. A LOT of that will be dependent on the tool you are using to power the Proteus. My Ridgid main battery drill gave me too high a feed rate; my big Ridgid corded drill had a nice feed rate, but it's just to big and cumbersome. The right angle tool worked GREAT but my right angle tool is a 3/8 chuck, so I had to actually turn down the output shaft on the Proteus to get it to fit (it's 1/2 inch) on my Sherline microlathe. Al Ladd says he's going to switch to a 3/8 output shaft so you will have a wider range of tools to power it with.

I think the Proteus offers some nice features (lower cost, relatively small size, fence mount, flexibility).

I think the main disadvantage for Shopsmith users will be for those who do not have some form of ripscale measurement on their fence system. I made my own; Shopsmith sells a ripscale accessory (magnetic rulers you mount on a 520); but without a ripscale, it's not easy to measure from fence to blade with the Proteus straddling the blade. In my case, I just set my rules up and align before adding the Proteus; then it's a simple matter of just using the cursor on the fence base to measure the scale on the table rail.

So far, I like it. A full review will be coming in the next few weeks, once I have time to set it up on my Shopsmith based routing system; and I want to set it up to work on my Shopsmith mounted 19" drum sander, as well.

More to come!

endgrainguy

Yup, clearly there's a strong competitive product to what I'm offering. But I developed my feeder to address the Baby Feeder's shortcomings (which I was all too familiar with) for my own use, and succeeded so well that I'm offering it to others.

Here are the Little Proteus's advantages over the BF:

1)Ease of installation/removal. Literally much more like installing and removing Jessem guides or Board Buddies than like installing any other power feeder. The BF is enough of a pain to install that a product has been developed using giant Magswitches as a quick install base. Good luck with this on a Shopsmith. The Magswitch kit is about the same price as the feeder, and more expensive in itself than the LP.

2) It will fit on very small tabled machines, like a Shopsmith. Has anyone actually used a baby feeder on their Shopsmith? The LP even works well on jobsite tablesaws, where it's not needing to be plugged in is another advantage. Rip 10' boards on a jobsite without support tables or a helper....

2)Fence mount. For the table saw this is a big advantage, as the physics of the forces involved mean it doesn't deflect the fence. Also, it moves with the fence, so work of radically different widths can be fed in one installation simply by moving the fence. Conventional feeders will have a column in the way for some work. For most fences customization is required, typically just adding a t-track on top. For recent Shopsmiths, or higher end fences with integral t-slots, it just pops on like any other jig.

3) Form factor for band saw resawing comparable to dedicated band saw feeders, which are $900 and up, and won't fit on small band saws (smaller than 20-24") without major table modification. With the right drill, feed speeds appropriately slow for this task (less than 1/2 the speed of the BF).I've seen the BF used on a band saw, and tried it myself, but it's marginal at best for all but a few very specific light duty resaw tasks.

The near parity in pricing to the Baby Feeder is an amazing example of how cheap our Chinese/Taiwanese tools are, and how used to that we are. Tools like the Shopsmith, and Jessem guides (Canada), and anything European seem like luxury items in comparison.

I'm working on offering a completed unit soon, and improving my instructions and adding a few details to the kits to make it easier. I'm eager for feed back. This project has taken a bigger life of its own than I anticipated.

RFGuy

Geoff,

Thanks. Appreciate your feedback here and looking forward to your review after you have had some time to fully test out the Little Proteus. Good feedback about setting up the width of cut and this is where a traditional swing arm power feeder has an advantage, I think. One question though, I assume for the "non-thru-cut riving knife" you meant the one that looks like a shark fin right (Shopsmith part #556223)? Wasn't this riving knife in the way of the rollers on the Little Proteus for you?

Al,

Thanks. I appreciate your feedback here and hopefully forum members will learn more from these exchanges and decide to buy your product. Personally I really have no need or desire to purchase any power feeder. I am a hobbyist and prefer to feel more connected and in control of my tools, not less, but others may need one depending on the work they do. IF I ever get around to building that wooden canoe one day and need to cut numerous identical strips then I might reconsider purchasing a power feeder. I understand there are pros and cons to any tool and your product may address some Grizzly BF deficiencies but realize you may create some new ones on your product, so customers have to decide what is best for their needs. Honestly the pricing was a bit confusing on your website so when I found the YouTube video explaining the choices, it made much more sense to me which is why I posted it here so your potential customers can better understand the options. Keep in mind that if you are at price parity with a commercial vendor then that puts you at a disadvantage IMHO. IF I built my own custom jig in the shop and I get hurt using it then that is on me. However, if I buy an add-on like this power feeder and I get hurt using it (following all manufacturer instructions) then I am going to seek compensation from the manufacturer. This is just my opinion, but if cost is equal I am going to pick the more established/larger commercial entity for the purchase should it have to come to litigation down the road. Others may not share this concern or be this prescient.

JPG

Prescient? Possible future litigation?

Agreed some do not share that concern. Just remove the first letter of he first word in the previous sentence for my 'opinion' of that.

Personally I consider manufacturer's instructions irrelevant. Anything I do requires my own judgement and that includes having sufficient knowledge to do so prior to any undertaking.

If I become injured I need only look into a mirror to see who is culpable.

Only far fetched possible corespondent is the safety crap that makes reading a manual such a trip down memory lane that is filled with ridiculous detail that the relevant necessary message is obscured.

RFGuy

JPG,

Yeah, I agree that one needs to know what they are doing before they use any power tool. Don't get me wrong I hate certain safety features (and warning stickers) like safety switches on push mowers, etc., but at the end of the day these features always get added because either a) someone didn't follow the instructions or b) they followed the instructions but a "freak" accident happened. I am more worried with the latter and yes I choose what products I buy based on company reputation and whether there may be a lawsuit in my future IF a freak accident happens to me. I know I am the exception. Another example is that I would never buy & use a RAS today even though I know many woodworkers have used them safely for years. Similarly some customers choose to buy a sub-compact car not thinking of the consequences should they get in a wreck with a much larger vehicle (physics matters!). Everyone has a different risk aversion algorithm running in their heads based on their own life experiences and perceptions.

P.S. Accidents do happen no matter how careful you are sometimes. Just this morning I stepped on a rusty nail while doing work in my yard (never stepped on a nail before in my entire life). Landscape rock is used a lot out here in yards to cover barren soil and the nail was impossible to see amongst it. What are the odds that it was sticking straight up and that I would step on it puncturing my shoe and foot? Off to get a tetanus shot now... :(

edma194

RFGuy wrote Don't get me wrong I hate certain safety features (and warning stickers) like safety switches on push mowers, etc...

Sometimes I feel like they're calling me an idiot personally with that kind of stuff, but yeah, they did what they had to do.

I've been using power tools since I was a kid, and I've had a healthy fear of them all along. People aren't raised that way as much anymore. I hope the people who start using dangerous tools without such experience are paying attention to all the warnings and safety procedures.

"Nobody teaches safety as well as a shop teacher missing half his fingers."

edma194

KayBur wrote Guys, I need your help! I am a co-author of the HomeMakerGuide blog. I wrote an article on table saws, but I'm not sure if I chose the best models and did a good review on them. Please see my article xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and tell me how you can improve it. I will be very glad to know your recommendations.

Those are all contractor's tablesaws and benchtop (compact) tablesaws. They are two categories of tablesaws, but there's no mention of hybrid and full size cabinet tablesaws that are the tools used in fine woodworking and cabinetry and comparable to a Shopsmith.

A number of statements describing the different types of tablesaws make no sense. A cabinet saw is not compact and has nothing to do with sawhorses. A hybrid tablesaw is a smaller version of a cabinet saw.

I suppose the comparisons between the saws mentioned are valid based on advertised features, but there is misinformation in that article.

edma194

edma194 wrote They are two categories of tablesaws, but there's no mention of hybrid and full size cabinet tablesaws...

Sorry, there was mention of those types of saws in the article, they were just not included for comparison.

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