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Shopsmith Mark 5 What When and Where

DLB

chapmanruss wrote ...As expected, the Mark 4 and the Mark V 520S both use the conventional “C” Headstock...

The Mark 4 is also available from the OEM with the PowerPro headstock at a higher cost. I think they are calling it Mark4P.(?)

When you upgrade to Double-Tilt, the way tubes do not fully seat into the DT Base Arms. I've wondered if this is true of a factory Mark 7 but don't know the answer. When I made a Mark 4 (previously known as a DT Shorty) I cut both Bench and Way Tube lengths to fully seat. IIRC the difference in tube lengths is less than 3/8" where it would be 3/4" on a regular Mark V/5 base. For this reason, the way tube length of the Mark 4 is unknown IMO.

- David

JPG

deleted(duplicate)

JPG

DLB wrote
chapmanruss wrote ...As expected, the Mark 4 and the Mark V 520S both use the conventional “C” Headstock...
The Mark 4 is also available from the OEM with the PowerPro headstock at a higher cost. I think they are calling it Mark4P.(?)

When you upgrade to Double-Tilt, the way tubes do not fully seat into the DT Base Arms. I've wondered if this is true of a factory Mark 7 but don't know the answer. When I made a Mark 4 (previously known as a DT Shorty) I cut both Bench and Way Tube lengths to fully seat. IIRC the difference in tube lengths is less than 3/8" where it would be 3/4" on a regular Mark V/5 base. For this reason, the way tube length of the Mark 4 is unknown IMO.

- David

I wonder what the current way and bench tube lengths are on a new Mark 7(factory double tilt). Are they the same as is on the MVII?(52") or 52 3/4"

A little voice in the back of my head is saying 1/2" not 3/4"?????

chapmanruss

TexasTransplant,

I am sorry to hear that the Rustoleum oatmeal color has been discontinued. I did that Goldie restoration over 4 years ago. Rustoleum has a gold Hammered Finish paint but I don't know or remember how it compares to the original Shopsmith Gold color. I'm not sure if I tried the gold color when testing colors.

EDIT: I have compared the Rustoleum Gold Hammered Finish paint to the Mark 5 Goldie's original color and it is not even close to a match. Not having a suitable color paint has kept me from doing another Mark 5 Goldie restoration. :(

David and JPG,

I don't recall any problem with the length of either the bench or way tubes not seating completely into the base and arms of the double tilt upgrade when I added it to my 2001 Mark V 520 a few years ago. Both of the bench tubes are seated against the stops on each end in the bases. I don't want to take apart the way tubes and arm parts but I believe they are fully seated too, IIRC.

The bench and way tubes of the Mark 7 should be the same length as a Mark V. The Double Tilt base and detachable arm was designed to replace the base/arm and headrest/tie bar of the Mark V. JPG, you would know better than I would if the 1960's Mark VII has different length bench and way tubes than the Mark 5 or V. I haven't owned one of the 1960's Mark VII yet.

I did see the the Mark 4 is available with the Power Pro Headstock too. Nice to not have the extra cost to change or upgrade from the conventional Headstock if you desire the Power Pro from the beginning.

TexasTransplant

Russ,

I tried the Rust-oleum hammered gold, but it is too much gold and not enough brown - that's why I tried the combination. From a distance that combo is not too bad, but a side-by-side comparison is readily noticeable. It might suffice for a total repaint job, but would not suffice for a touch-up on any surface that is normally exposed.

DLB

chapmanruss wrote ...I don't recall any problem with the length of either the bench or way tubes not seating completely into the base and arms of the double tilt upgrade when I added it to my 2001 Mark V 520 a few years ago. Both of the bench tubes are seated against the stops on each end in the bases. I don't want to take apart the way tubes and arm parts but I believe they are fully seated too, IIRC...

Not a problem, just the way it is, but this is from the DT Installation manual:

"Center the Way Tubes in the Pivot Arms. You probably noticed that you will be able to slide the Way Tubes Left-to-right about 3/8”. Follow the steps

below to center the Way Tubes:" (https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manuals/845633_C_04-12.pdf) Page 10 starting at step 5.

That is how my machine that is upgraded to Mark 7 is, way tubes are centered, not seated. When I put DT on my shorty I needed to cut new bench tubes anyway (cuz it was a Greenie with large diameter tubes) so I cut them shorter to enable the way tubes to seat.

- David

JPG

Hmmmmmmmmm. I wonder if a current MarkV/7 with double tilt has way tubes 1/2' longer than earlier ones.(both bench and way tubes are 52 1/2").

If I were doing the conversion, I would be putting plugs(stops) in those bores.

jsburger

DLB wrote
chapmanruss wrote ...I don't recall any problem with the length of either the bench or way tubes not seating completely into the base and arms of the double tilt upgrade when I added it to my 2001 Mark V 520 a few years ago. Both of the bench tubes are seated against the stops on each end in the bases. I don't want to take apart the way tubes and arm parts but I believe they are fully seated too, IIRC...
Not a problem, just the way it is, but this is from the DT Installation manual:

"Center the Way Tubes in the Pivot Arms. You probably noticed that you will be able to slide the Way Tubes Left-to-right about 3/8”. Follow the steps

below to center the Way Tubes:" (https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/manuals/845633_C_04-12.pdf) Page 10 starting at step 5.

That is how my machine that is upgraded to Mark 7 is, way tubes are centered, not seated. When I put DT on my shorty I needed to cut new bench tubes anyway (cuz it was a Greenie with large diameter tubes) so I cut them shorter to enable the way tubes to seat.

- David

I did my upgrade in 2012 on a 1994 510. That is the way mine is also.

chapmanruss

David,

I must have read that in the instructions too, but just don't recall it now. Mine is probably the same. When writing responses I try to look up references besides checking actual parts to make sure I am getting things correct as my memory isn't what it once was or at least I think that is true. :confused:

In this case I only checked the Shopsmith itself and only the bench tubes. My bad.

rpd

Jacob Anderson just posted this video on the different Gilmer drive sleeves that were used on the Greenies and and early Goldies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDyzlw1a5gc^t=1

chapmanruss

Ron,

Thank you for adding the Jacob Anderson video. He has spent a long time repairing Shopsmith tools and has a lot of Knowledge. I do wonder what he is referring to as the 1st Gilmer Drive Sleeve and not having a set screw. The 1st Owner's Manual shows the Drive Sleeve having a set screw to lock the gear onto the sleeve itself. The plastic anti-rattle was a later addition. I would like to have seen the inside of the sleeve on the last Drive Sleeve Assembly without the plastic part in place to see if any teeth were there or not. Not to say Jacob is incorrect but just my curiosity about that. It still doesn't answer as far as I can tell what the interim Drive Sleeve and Quill setup looked like when the change occurred going from the Gilmer Drive to the Poly V Drive for the "special" parts needed.

DLB

chapmanruss wrote ...

1984 September, Two Bearing Quill replaced single bearing quill in headstocks Serial number 190000 & above. *1 (online catalog has it November & history has it October)

...

Does anyone know when the two-piece spindle in the two-bearing quill (the one held together with a spring tension pin) was replaced by the current one piece spindle? I know early 90's was two-piece and believe the one piece was standard by early 2000's, but I'm looking to narrow that down some. Are there any external distinguishing features that one would be able to see in an ebay ad if a person wanted to buy a specific version?

- David

JPG

chapmanruss wrote Ron,

Thank you for adding the Jacob Anderson video. He has spent a long time repairing Shopsmith tools and has a lot of Knowledge. I do wonder what he is referring to as the 1st Gilmer Drive Sleeve and not having a set screw. The 1st Owner's Manual shows the Drive Sleeve having a set screw to lock the gear onto the sleeve itself. The plastic anti-rattle was a later addition. I would like to have seen the inside of the sleeve on the last Drive Sleeve Assembly without the plastic part in place to see if any teeth were there or not. Not to say Jacob is incorrect but just my curiosity about that. It still doesn't answer as far as I can tell what the interim Drive Sleeve and Quill setup looked like when the change occurred going from the Gilmer Drive to the Poly V Drive for the "special" parts needed.

The Mark 2 drive sleeve I recently acquired does NOT have the splines in the metal interior of the drive sleeve. It looks identical to the one in Jacob Anderson's video(late gilmer). Only the coupler has the splines.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26877&p=289095#p289095

I am curious re the groove/ring in the rear drive sleeve bearing.

chapmanruss

JPG,

Do keep in mind that the Mark 2 Drive Sleeve does not have a Gilmer or Poly V drive "gear" as part of the assembly. The Mark 2 is driven by a set of pulleys like the Model 10's.

I am taking the following back to your Mark 2 Headstock Parts topic to keep that information together.

I am curious re the groove/ring in the rear drive sleeve bearing.

The link for that topic is below.

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=26877&p=289137#p289137

chapmanruss

It is hard to believe but I have found more to talk about relating to the Mark 5. Very recently I found and purchased a Cast Iron Extension Table similar to ones that were made for the Model 10ER. This is the only Cast Iron Extension Table I have seen for a Mark 5 and even the ones for the Model 10ER are very rare with only about 4 that we know of. So why were these Cast Iron Extension Tables made and when? Today I added this to my Thread Shopsmith Model 10’s What When and Where since they seem to relate to each other.

The Mark 5 was in design, engineering and testing for some time while the Model 10ER was still being made and sold. Very recently I found and purchased a Mark 5 Cast Iron Extension Table. It is the only one I have seen although there are around 4 of the Model 10 Cast Iron Extension Tables we know of. I now believe that during the testing of the Mark 5 some Cast Iron Extension Tables were made and the ones for the Model 10ER were also made as a test in the table design around that time. Most of the Cast Iron Extension Tables for the Model 10ER came with the longer bracket which was a later change for the Model 10ER. The bracket and the existence of a rare Cast Iron Extension Table for the Mark 5 lead me to believe they were both made at that time. This is only speculation and I could be totally wrong but based on what I know it is my best explanation.

As to how these Cast Iron Extension Tables got out into circulation is anybody’s guess too but here are a couple possibilities, over the years the Shopsmith line has changed ownership and they may have come from clearing out extra stock. Another is they may have been on demo units that were later sold. Of course, these are only guesses and we may never know the real way they became available.

In the pictures below of the Extension Tables are the Aluminum on top and the Cast Iron on the bottom.

CI and AL Extension Tables top.jpg

CI and AL Extension Tables bottom.jpg

lahola1

I recently aquired an older SSmk V in fairly rough condition that I intend to rebuild with a variable speed DC motor. It has a gilmer drive; nameplate says it has a 1 1/8HP motor (motor draws a hair over 7 amps so I guess it is a 1 1/8HP) and looks like original gray paint under the cover.

The nameplate has NO serial # (see pics). I didn't read anything in this thread reguarding no serial #'s. I'm guessing this is approx a 1962?

Any thoughts?

DLB

lahola1 wrote I recently aquired an older SSmk V in fairly rough condition that I intend to rebuild with a variable speed DC motor. It has a gilmer drive; nameplate says it has a 1 1/8HP motor (motor draws a hair over 7 amps so I guess it is a 1 1/8HP) and looks like original gray paint under the cover.

The nameplate has NO serial # (see pics). I didn't read anything in this thread reguarding no serial #'s. I'm guessing this is approx a 1962?

Any thoughts?

Maybe some mix and match parts there? The Gilmer drive means 50's or very early 60's, but as far as I know also means originally 3/4 HP and originally Greenie or Goldie (much less likely) color scheme. The nameplate says Shopsmith Inc, which means 70's or later and means not Gilmer. The lack of a SN on the plate suggests even later to me, when they started using a separate sticker. Which would only mean the nameplate is newer.

- David

chapmanruss

David's comments about the Vent Plate are correct. It would be from a Mark V made after Date Coding replaced serial numbers in December 1987.

Since it has been 68 years now since the first Mark 5's were being made it is not surprising to find mixed and matched parts on these tools.

My now Mark 7 is on a November 2001 Model 520 frame with a headstock Date Coded 09-11-01 on the Belt Cover but the main headstock casting is from a different "C" Headstock along with the Motor Pan. I purchased used headstock parts to make a complete one when I did the DIY Power Pro upgrade and kept the complete original Headstock as a spare. The seller gave me the date of the Headstock casting and motor pan so I could use the correct paint formula. Since I added the Double Tilt Upgrade those parts are a year newer than the Power Pro Upgrade. Even the front Fence Rails are newer than 2001 since I purchased the Rip Scale upgrade kit.

When restoring older tools that need replacement parts because they were either missing or damaged can be a challenge to find close matches. For some just finding a part the fits and works is enough. Admittedly the Mark 5 "Greenie" I restored serial number 351689 was not that serial number originally. It was close to that serial number based on the changes made to the Mark 5 in those early years but when it was given to me it had no Vent/Serial Number Plate. The person who gave me the Mark 5 said it was left in a rental house of his, so any history is unknown. I bought a vent/serial number plate with a serial number in the proper range to give it an identity and complete the restoration. Waiting to get that vent/serial number plate was the final touch in that restoration.

lahola1

Thanks for the info. The no serial # on the nameplate confused me.

rpd

The name plate is sold separately as a service part. See ref #101 so it might have been replaced at some point in the past, though it has been there a long time.

https://www.shopsmith.com/service/headstock/headstock_parts_list.htm

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