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Woodpeckers MORTY - loose tenon router jig

RFGuy

For anyone who has enough money to buy a Festool Domino, but that doesn't want to, Woodpeckers has come out with the MORTY. For $500 plus a router you can now make loose tenon joints more slowly than with a Festool Domino.

https://www.woodpeck.com/morty-loose-tenon-jig.html

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Hobbyman2

thats different! works almost like a panta router , I see they have some competition on their line of tools from China Tools ? https://www.banggood.com/buy/china-woodworking-tools.html

thedovetailjoint

Yep, that pretty much sums it up, @FRGuy

reible

One thing I did find interesting is the exposed joint via their "MORTY-TENON-STOCK".

The Festool domino version 500 does 4,5,6,8, and 10 but not the 12 or 14, for that you have to go to the 700 where the stock machine does 8, 10,12, and 14. There are also depth concentrations with just how deep you can go with morty. It also appears there is only a tight fit and no loose fit so locations all have to be right on. Or at least I didn't see that feature on morty.

Morty comes with a 1/4" bit but you can get the whole set for an additional for $220 now or after at $245 later so I would have some serious questions as to the value with out this set. With just the 1/4" bit you can't do the whole range of cuts, so at the very least you would be very limited in what you can cut as it comes. To be fair the base domino has to go to the kit to get the rest of the cutters, a jump from base costs but more then like what I would do if I were buying one.

Ed

RFGuy

Yeah, not trying to talk anyone into or out of this product, but it does appear to be of limited value (from my perspective). If you are fortunate enough to already have all of the router bits and a good router, then MORTY would ONLY be an incremental cost of $500. As Ed mentioned a full set of router bits is well over $200. By the time you factor this in, this product isn't much cheaper than a Domino (DF500). I say this because when I bought mine, Festool started throwing in all of the cutters (for free) with the purchase of the DF500. By the way, Woodpeckers allows you to make looser mortises by the flip down stops, i.e. just having more than one. They show it in the video. Just my opinion, but I am not a fan of exposed joinery when it comes to the Domino profile, i.e. seeing an exposed oval doesn't get me excited. Other joinery types are far more decorative for exposed joinery (IMHO). I don't have the larger Domino (DF700), but it can cut some pretty deep mortises. Not sure how easy it will be to recreate this with MORTY though...might need some very specialized router bits to do it. I still think the Domino wins out against this product, though I could see some very specialized cases where MORTY is a good companion to have and use with a Domino (for those with $$$ to burn).

DLB

I don't have either Festool Domino and would not buy this either, both 'solutions' are pretty pricey for a joint I don't use often and already know how to make. I do understand the attraction for the Domino in a higher volume operation, it is very fast and clean and the parts fit. Morty evidently works on the combination of imperial router bits, unknown bushings, and a custom template to form metric mortises. Why? Seems much simpler to use imperial value mortises or, if you must, metric router bits. Then you can make your 'floating tenon mortises' the same way you make any other mortises. I understand this even less if you make you own floating tenons or tenon stock. Just my two cents worth.

RFGuy wrote By the way, Woodpeckers allows you to make looser mortises by the flip down stops, i.e. just having more than one. They show it in the video.

I saw this too. So the stock also moves while you are cutting the mortise? I wonder what 'standard' sizes it will cut without repositioning the stock.

- David

RFGuy

A little more info on MORTY in Woodpeckers Deep Dive today. Maybe I am biased, but boy do those mortises look pretty ragged (tear out) around about 13:08 into the video...

DLB

RFGuy wrote A little more info on MORTY in Woodpeckers Deep Dive today. Maybe I am biased, but boy do those mortises look pretty ragged (tear out) around about 13:08 into the video...

I agree. But are you saying that a Festool Domino would do a better job with respect to tear out on a penetrating mortise like this? Or are you saying that you don't love this joinery style? (I don't typically go for the exposed end-grain look myself, but I know it is popular in various designs and creates some interesting contrasts.)

- David

RFGuy

DLB wrote I agree. But are you saying that a Festool Domino would do a better job with respect to tear out on a penetrating mortise like this? Or are you saying that you don't love this joinery style? (I don't typically go for the exposed end-grain look myself, but I know it is popular in various designs and creates some interesting contrasts.)

- David

Thanks David. I don't honestly know for sure because I haven't tried any through mortises with the Domino. However, in freezing the video in a few sections where he shows these mortises (before assembly) it looks to me like he had severe tearout on both sides of the mortise. The Domino has absolutely no tearout on the cherry that I have used it on so far, but this is just the top of the mortise. In the Woodpecker video, I see tearout on top and bottom of the mortise, or at least it looks that way to me. A little hard to tell because he keeps moving it around and there are no close ups showing it before assembly.

jsburger

Correct me if I am wrong but tear out is a function of the router bit. The Morty itself has nothing to do with the tear out.

reible

Two things I think explain what you are seeing as issues. First it is an up-cut bit so the edge where the bit plunges will always have some distress. But you can live with that since you will be at the very least be sanding that area to flush things up and to clean up the super glue spill over. Since this is an exposed surface it might well be worth the effort to make it look nice if it is a gift. If I were doing for my own home use then I wouldn't spend excess time on it but still clean it up.

Second is the fact that he was plunging through the material, again this is likely to leave some less then wonderful results. Not only that but the plunge was done many times so each break through would have this issue. If you were to insure that it was centered then the clean up passes might get most of it but you don't have a lot of room to work with.

These edges might well be done on thicker then needed stock then cleaned up to the correct thickness after the morty work was done. I don't see any disadvantages to this approach but I haven't thought all that much about it, just sort of popped into my head..... so maybe there is some got-ya?

Still not planning to buy one but that was an interesting idea of a use. And I still think having long stock for the tenon that is designed to be used as an exposed surface is a good idea. I might buy some stock like that someday. I know it is common practice to have exposed tenons on drawer sides make with the domino but since they are not on display the stock material works fine, but they are not really ready for prime time exposed joints.

Ed

RFGuy

Yeah, I agree the tear out is likely more of a function of the router bits Woodpeckers is selling with MORTY than with MORTY himself. I would have to study the design of the Festool Domino cutters compared to the Woodpeckers router bits to see if there is anything “special” with the Festool cutters. I just wanted to point out that the Domino mortises haven’t shown ANY tear out for me so far but I have tried it on a few wood species so far. If you look closely in the Woodpeckers video you will see significant tear out on both sides of the mortise. The Festool Domino does NOT do this on non-through mortises so far in my experience with it. For non-through mortises it really doesn’t matter since the joint won’t be visible but I just wanted to point out that MORTY may not work as well as the Domino in this regard.

DLB

RFGuy wrote Yeah, I agree the tear out is likely more of a function of the router bits Woodpeckers is selling with MORTY than with MORTY himself. I would have to study the design of the Festool Domino cutters compared to the Woodpeckers router bits to see if there is anything “special” with the Festool cutters...

After that earlier discussion, I looked at some pics of the Festool Brand Domino cutters. I think they are fairly "special" with a price tag to match. They have a more complex geometry at the cutting face, I'd call it faceted. I don't think I'd want to sharpen one. Amazon also carries Domino cutters from Amana and CMT, those look more like a typical up-cut spiral router bit adapted to the Festool chuck. But in a quick glance at the reviews I didn't see much complaining and they are somewhat less pricey. I sometimes use a router to make similar (non-through) mortises and don't see a tear-out issue. But I'm not using a plunge router and I'm going slower. And at least 99% of the time the edge of the mortise will be covered when the parts are assembled.

I'm not saying that this is the answer or that the Festool Domino won't cause tear-out at the exit of a through-cut. I can see that it could be better and I can see why it would cost more to make it this way. If Festool sold a 1/4" up-cut router bit like this I'd buy one just to try it. In the meantime I saw some interesting offerings from Whiteside.

- David

BuckeyeDennis

Up-cut spiral bits will lift wood fibers on the entry side of the hole, but they clear the sawdust very nicely. Down-cut bits will cut cleanly on the entry side, but don’t do a great job of clearing the sawdust in a blind hole. Compression bits are the best of both worlds (basically a combination up/down cut), but are more expensive, and require a certain depth of cut before they can give you both benefits. That being a downcut on the entry side, and a upcut on the exit side.

Unless you’re using a router table that is, in which case “up” and “down” are bass-ackwards. 🤔

JEFFinCLE

Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.

DLB

JEFFinCLE wrote Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.

Welcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy your Shopsmith equipment. What did you buy? A question about Morty - When cutting the large size 'standard' mortises (and I'm not having much luck finding those dimensions) does the material have to be moved relative to Morty to cut the mortise? In other words, I'm presuming when we say 14mm domino we mean 14mm by XXmm, defined by some standard. Will it cut the XX dimension in one go?

- David

JEFFinCLE

DLB wroteWelcome to the forum, I hope you enjoy your Shopsmith equipment. What did you buy? A question about Morty - When cutting the large size 'standard' mortises (and I'm not having much luck finding those dimensions) does the material have to be moved relative to Morty to cut the mortise? In other words, I'm presuming when we say 14mm domino we mean 14mm by XXmm, defined by some standard. Will it cut the XX dimension in one go?

- David

The length of the mortise cut by Morty exactly matches the dimension of Festool's Domino machines. That is to say, the size of the mortise (6mm for example) plus 13mm. That makes the 6mm mortise 19mm long. The 14mm mortise is 27mm long (14+13). That is how we can use one template to cut 7 different mortises. Morty cuts all 7 sizes without repositioning the jig. It's all about the combination of template guide bushing and router bit.

I bought a first generation DC-3300 and a Pro Planer. Two different sellers and two different goals. I was searching for the DC-3300 because I always admired it and in looking for one, I stumbled on the Pro Planer. My Makita lunchbox is starting to make some weird noises like the bearings are getting ready to lay an egg, so I thought I would give this a try.

The DC-3300 is sitting between a 1950 Delta drill press and a 1954 DeWalt MBC radial arm saw. My personal shop is sort of a mid- to late- 20th century home-shop machinery museum. But I cut my teeth on a Shopsmith Mark V.

RFGuy

JEFFinCLE wrote
Hi there. New here and joined because I bought a couple pieces of used Shopsmith equipment this weekend. Stumbled across this thread before I wrote a "hi there" post.

That's me in the video. I can assure you, what you're looking at is fuzzy hang-ons...not tear out. The was virtually none. Look at 16:28 and you'll see the glued up ends with no tear-out. The sanding sequence that follows is a few seconds of 180 grit.

Jeff,

First of all, please know that I am a fan of Woodpeckers tools and own several of them, as well as have a couple in production right now that I am waiting on. Just wish more of them were compatible with Shopsmith specific equipment. I appreciate that they are designed and manufactured in the USA. By the way, I appreciate your videos and find them very informative. Maybe I am nitpicking here, but it wasn't clear to me whether they were hang-ons or actual tearout. Kind of hard to see it clearly in parts of the video due to camera focus while zooming. However, when I freeze frame and examine the mortises at about 16:22, I don't see smooth flat edges on some of the mortises. Any thoughts on these? For exposed M&T joints, I had hoped these would be a bit cleaner and tigher fitting.

JEFFinCLE

Other than the 4th from the right edge, I think they're pretty good. Particularly when you consider I was working on a schedule and in front of a camera. lol Want them perfect? Take your time.

One more thing...on my screen (and I assume yours) your zoom is about 1.5 actual size.

RFGuy

JEFFinCLE wrote Other than the 4th from the right edge, I think they're pretty good. Particularly when you consider I was working on a schedule and in front of a camera. lol Want them perfect? Take your time.

One more thing...on my screen (and I assume yours) your zoom is about 1.5 actual size.

Jeff,

Fair enough, however there is NO zoom in that picture. Taken straight off of my computer with no zoom setting for Google Chrome where I captured it from.