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Start trips breaker

Dingo76

I just acquired a SS that sat idle fir 15 years.

When I flip the start switch the motor attempts to spin but trips the 20Amp breaker. With drive belt removed the motor spins freely every time with no problem.

What are the first things I should look into?

Thx

D

br549

Welcome, and good first step in checking the motor with the drive belt removed.

Where is the speed control set? If it is set to anything above the lower end of the speed range, that may be the problem. If you need to lower the speed setting, put on the sanding disk and manually spin the sanding disk while slowly turning the speed control to "Slow". Never try to turn the speed control without the sheaves moving.

There may be other possibilities too such as frozen bearings or stuck sheaves ... I'm sure others will chime in who have more experience than me in this area.

If you haven't already done so, there are several excellent posts at the top of this Maintenance and Repair forum with valuable tips for owners new to their Shopsmith.

JPG

Also are you starting it with an extension cord attached?

Since it appears to try to start, I would suspect the start switch(the start capacitor rarely causes this).

Before digging into the motor, hit the motor pan a few times so as to hopefully dislodge any debris that is preventing the start switch contacts from making.

Finally do NOT make repeated attempts without a cooling off period in between. There are NO thermal interrupters and the run windings heat up very quickly if the armature is not rotating near normal speed.

dusty

Dingo76 wrote I just acquired a SS that sat idle fir 15 years.

When I flip the start switch the motor attempts to spin but trips the 20Amp breaker. With drive belt removed the motor spins freely every time with no problem.

What are the first things I should look into?

Thx

D

No matter where the speed control is set, you ought to be able to turn the shaft (the sheaves) to determine if the drive system is frozen. Depending on where the speed control is set, turning the shaft by hand can be difficult. Mount a sanding disk and use it to turn the shaft. While turning the sanding disk (shaft), move the speed control to SLOW.

After setting for that long without being used, the belts are probably very stiff. Turning everything as has been described may loosen them some but I recommend getting new belts.

Having done this without difficulty, consider blowing out the headstock (remove belt cover on left side of headstock) and then lubrication per the procedures in your manual.

DLB

If anyone has moved the speed adjustment with the shafts not turning, it is possible that the lower belt is simply pinched between the Idler sheaves. If this is the case, moving toward a higher speed should free it. Then manually adjust to a slow speed as described above, with shafts turning.

There are many unknowns when it's been sitting so long. Best indicator is how hard it is to turn by hand. If it is hard to adjust the speed control that is a different problem, don't force it.

- David

john_001

The first thing to do after 15 years is to lubricate it according to instructions. You'll need to do that anyway, whether it fixes the problem or not, so you might as well try that first. I can recommend the Zoom Spout Oiler, which can reach the two oil holes. You can get at a local Ace or other places for about $4-$5

beeg

Clean up the inside and lubricate it. Wax the way tubes and tables. Then do the alignments.

chapmanruss

Dingo76,

You said,

With drive belt removed the motor spins freely every time with no problem.

Now is this turning by hand or with power? If working okay under power than look for problems on the rest of the system. As has already been said maintenance may be needed. Clean sawdust and/or debris out of the headstock. Oiling the motor and Idler sheaves may help and should be done anyway at this point.

Let me ask did you get a manual with it? If not check the link below. At the bottom of the page are Summary Manuals for the Mark 7, Mark V 520, Mark V 510/505 and Mark V 500. Choose the one for your Shopsmith Mark V model. If you're not sure of your model any of the Mark V Summary Manuals will have the same maintenance for the conventional Headstock. The difference between the Mark V models is the table system and related items. A full Owner's Manual would be a good item to have and are available for purchase here on the Shopsmith website.

https://www.shopsmith.com/service/mark/index.htm

Other things to check while the motor belt is removed would be how does the spindle turn. This will check to see if the bearings need to be replaced in the Quill Assembly, Drive Sleeve Assembly or Idler Shaft Assembly. With a sanding disk attached to the spindle, does the spindle turn freely? You will see the upper and lower shaft turn at the belt end also. If the Quill and Drive Sleeve Assemblies along with the Idler Shaft Assembly are turning freely than the bearings are okay.

Again, with the motor belt removed or out of the way does the Speed Dial turn freely and move the sheave on the Idler shaft pulley in and out. A word of WARNING here - KEEP THE BELT OUT OF THE IDLER PULLEY WHILE DOING THIS. You do not want to let the belt wedge in the pulley while checking this. If resistance is felt, do not force it. It may be the Idler shaft Pulley Sheave need more lubrication or simply the oil worked in, or it could be a problem with the gear/teeth on the Speed Control Assembly.

At this point try the suggestions and get back to us with what you find. We are here to help and glad to do so. Let's get your new to you Shopsmith running in top condition.

Dingo76

Thx fir the responses

I have lubricated the holes as per manual

By hand it turns Smoothly

Plugged in, turned on it trips the breaker after 1/4 turn

With lower belt removed, the motor starts and spins every time

JPG

What else goes off when the breaker trips?

dusty

Dingo76 wrote Thx fir the responses

I have lubricated the holes as per manual

By hand it turns Smoothly

Plugged in, turned on it trips the breaker after 1/4 turn

With lower belt removed, the motor starts and spins every time

If it was me, I'd be headed to a motor shop. If there is something wrong with the motor continuing to apply power will not make it better.

Testing with NO LOAD is a meaningless test at this point. Start switch works and windings are not open; that is all you can conclude.

DLB

With the belt off and motor spinning, turn it off and listen for an audible click. This is the start switch resetting as the motor winds down. The click is normal.

Check the power cord condition and size. It should be at least 14 AWG. (OEM). 12 is better. 16 or smaller is too small.

For now, it's best to not use any extension cord. If you must, use as short as possible and 12 AWG.

For now, ensure the Mark is on a circuit where it is the only load.

You said it turns about 1/4 turn before the CB trips. That's either a very fast trip or a very slow start. How fast does it trip? Can you try it on another circuit?

- David

lastdigitofpi

I had the same problem, Motor almost got up to speed then the breaker tripped. Problem was that I have an Arc Fault Circuit Breaker. Had to plug the SS into a NON-Arc Fault Circuit Breaker.

If this is not the case with you, then I suspect there is an overload (Too much resistance to rotation). Or a problem with the Capacitor.

Dingo76

Thx

Will look into that

wa2crk

Is it possible for you to monitor the line voltage during startup? The problem may be caused by the line voltage dropping during startup due to losses in faulty wiring external to the Shopsmith.

Bill V

dusty

wa2crk wrote Is it possible for you to monitor the line voltage during startup? The problem may be caused by the line voltage dropping during startup due to losses in faulty wiring external to the Shopsmith.

Bill V

Interesting! But, one question. What should one expect to see when using typical monitoring equipment (Fluke Multimeter here)?

Hobbyman2

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Camco-55263-120V-AC-Line-Voltage-Meter-Provides-A-Continuous-AC-Line-Voltage-Reading/29764594

My thoughts are it could be a amp issue but with out monitoring the supply line voltage / amperage it would be anyone's guess ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/262715986670

JPG

A digital meter does not lend itself to transient fluctuation indication.

The old fashioned kind would be better(d'arsonval movement).

dusty

JPG wrote A digital meter does not lend itself to transient fluctuation indication.

The old fashioned kind would be better(d'arsonval movement).

Might that not depend on which model multimeter is being used.

Hobbyman2

JPG wrote A digital meter does not lend itself to transient fluctuation indication.

The old fashioned kind would be better(d'arsonval movement).

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The first link and voltage meter with a needle would be a analog meter ? sort of like the old automobile volt / amp gage , I use a digital meter like the 2nd link for radio repair , I use it for monitoring DC voltage . I can monitor line voltage from the power supply as well as power consumption in all radio operations , especially when in the transmit mode , they do have their limitations but are also very compact and easy to install . the 2nd link is a AC operations monitor .