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Restoration Progress On My 1955 Greenie

mickyd

Update 9-04-09 Decided to add this thread index indicating which post numbers contain certain info. The thread is so long that it is difficult to easily find particulars. Hope this helps. I'll complete it soon.

THREAD INDEX (work in-process)

Electrolysis for rust removal - 1, 13, how to guide1, how to guide2 , how to guide3, this threadand this website that discusses the process
Bench tubes - Reconditioning bench tubes, rust removal, polishing - 13, 25, this thread
Priming before paint - 20, 150, 177, 326, to prime or not to prime thread, sample showing primed vs. unprimed texture, aluminum parts that I painted without priming first, don't use primer for rust on clean metal
Painting - 14, 18, 20, 25, 75, 156, 177, 326,
Gilmer Drive Sysem - Cleaning, Inspecting, Rebuilding - 22, this post for a better clamping method
Speed control - Damaged beyond repair - this thread
Bearing installation without a press - Gilmer drive - this thread
Bench and way tubes - Reconditioning - 29,
Polishing the aluminum knobs, handles - 42, 49, 70, 179, 187, 294
Repairing broken aluminum casting - 55, 156
Caution label - Recreating headstock caution labels - 87, 102, 113, 120, 125, 128 (final pdf file for greenie shown on the left AND goldie caution label shown on the right ), entire sheet of labels formated for avery label stock 136, 140 (final product on my greeine)
Paint removal - Stripping paint - this thread
Drill chuck - Disassembly, inspection - This thread
Cute dog - 151, another (mine)
Saw and extension table - Reconditioning and cleaning - 169,
Cleaning oxide off aluminum - 169,
Priming inside of aluminum castings - 177
Logo plate mounting alternative - 251, 289,
Bearing info - 315, 317, 325, 332,
Bearing part numbers - 284
Jigsaw shaft alignment to headstock - 327 thru 330,
Jigsaw disassembly and restoration - 327, 335,
Motor relay and capacitor wiring - this post in a different thread
Final restored "Greenie" - SWEET!! - 293, 294,

Original 2-22-09 posted thread follows:

I wanted to update you on my 1955 Mark V restoration project. Originally came into the forum 2 weeks ago from: https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3012

Taking it slow and steady. I’m completely disassembled and inspected. All parts are in Ziploc bags, by family, and identified by ref. #.

There is nothing worse that tackling a disassembly jobs and ending out with a pile of parts that you have little clue as to what the heck they are and where the heck they belong. Learned that lesson as a teen disassembling an automatic transmission. Realized they sure do come apart easy but try putting them back together from a pile. You soon realize that you either need an outstanding memory……(NOT)…..or a “system”. Believe me, chose the latter.

Now that the beast is fully disassembled and inspected, the process of cleaning is next. There’s a ton of rusty steel and dull aluminum that needs attention. I started the rust removal today. Decided to use electrolysis for as much as I can. I hate hand / wire cleaning rust.

Here’s pics of the retractable the caster assy b4 electolysis. They are completely frozen up. I’ll show you the afters later. (afters are in post 187) They’ve been soaking in the bath all day. I'll take them out tonight for a peek to see how they are progressing.

charlese

Thanks for the update, Mike! Like others, I feel that I'm almost involved with you in the process. You certainly have a great gift for writing, and photography. Keep 'em coming!:D

reible

Interesting, first time I've seen the tank used as part of the system... mostly have seen re-bar used. It is sure a good way to get the rust off. Can't wait to see the results!

Great idea on storing the parts in the bags. Another thing that works great is to take a lot of pictures... since you have the camera take a few snap shot and that way you can see how it looked as it comes apart. I know this has help me a lot since I've gotten older... use to be I could remember but now I get confused, perhaps you aren't at that point yet???

How do you dispose of the "gunk"?

Ed

mickyd

reible wrote

How do you dispose of the "gunk"?

Ed

As long as BOTH your cathod (the material you use to connect your workpiece to the negative black lead with) and more importantly your anode (the material you connect the positive red lead to, in my case the sheet metal around the tank) is made of plain carbon steel and NOT plated i.e. zinc, cad, galvanized etc., or worse, made of stainless steel, the gunk is environmentally friendly. It is merely iron and the washing soda which is safe enough to pour on your lawn, bushes, garden etc. If your anemic, you can even slug down a 16 ouncer of the stuff............obviously JUST KIDDING on the sluging.

Don't use STAINLESS STEEL. Although it functions better than the carbon steel, it puts hexavalent chromium (Cr6 )into the solution which is environmently NASTY and illegal to dump.

reible

Well is sounds like you have it covered. If you have pine trees I understand they like iron at least according to my brother who lets stuff rest in a bucket of water then adds it to the drip line of the pine trees???

Ed

mickyd wroteAs long as BOTH your cathod (the material you use to connect your workpiece to the negative black lead with) and more importantly your anode (the material you connect the positive red lead to, in my case the sheet metal around the tank) is made of plain carbon steel and NOT plated i.e. zinc, cad, galvanized etc., or worse, made of stainless steel, the gunk is environmentally friendly. It is merely iron and the washing soda which is safe enough to pour on your lawn, bushes, garden etc. If your anemic, you can even slug down a 16 ouncer of the stuff............obviously JUST KIDDING on the sluging.

Don't use STAINLESS STEEL. Although it functions better than the carbon steel, it puts hexavalent chromium (Cr6 )into the solution which is environmently NASTY and illegal to dump.

nuhobby

I can't wait to see this one's progress.... thanks for posting.

Thanks also for your one photo that ID's some steel rods as the components of the Caster set.... I have one lonely sample of those steel rods sitting in my junk-box and I've spent a good many instances wondering where it came from.

tom_k/mo

Mike, very interesting. Looking forward to your "After" photos of the caster assys. Can you expound a little on the electrolysis process? You mentioned Washing Soda, is that TSP or something else? Any other details would be appreciated.

beeg

The washing soda is a laundry product, different from TSP. Here's a link for the process.

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp

tom_k/mo

Bob, thanks for the link. Always learning something new...

dicksterp

A lot of guys over on http://www.owwm.org/ use this method to restore old iron. There they call it spooging. http://www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm has a nice write up and lots of photos on it. You can just leave the solution in the container and cover it until the next time you feel the urge to remove rust.

mickyd

tom_k/mo wroteMike, very interesting. Looking forward to your "After" photos of the caster assys. Can you expound a little on the electrolysis process? You mentioned Washing Soda, is that TSP or something else? Any other details would be appreciated.

Chemically, washing soda (sodium carbonate) is identical to baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) except wahing soda has an extra H20 molocule and an exta CO2 (carbon dioxide) molocule. This is why you can easily make your own washing soda by taking regular baking soda and cooking it at 300 dgree F for an hour. The baking soda will release the water and carbon dioxide molocule into the air and your left with washing soda.

Washing soda was impossible to find here in San Diego so I make my own with baking soda and my oven.

mickyd

dicksterp wroteA lot of guys over on http://www.owwm.org/ use this method to restore old iron. There they call it spooging. http://www.yankeetoys.org/lee/electrolysis.htm has a nice write up and lots of photos on it. You can just leave the solution in the container and cover it until the next time you feel the urge to remove rust.

Good link you provided to yankeetoys. I haven't seen that one before. You'll notice on thier page, about 3/4 of the way down, that they show a large solution filled vessel for cleaning an entire lathe bed. This is the identical process I am using to derust my bench tubes. See it at, the fifth message down:

https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3072

If all going well, I should be firing up the process tonight after work. If your lights dim at about 7:00 PST, you'll know why!! I am even going to try using 2 chargers just to see what it does. Hope it doesn't vaporize the tubes.

mickyd

Completed the electrolysis on my bench tubes. Came out pretty good with no effort. Still have to polish them.

Update 6-14-09 Try to set up the tank so that it is off the ground like in this postso that you can siphon the liquid out. I had to use a pitcher here since the tank was on the basement floor.

In the container

Filled with "the broth"

After one hour. Notice the foam.

Out of the bath and rinsed off. Check out all the junk that is on the sacrificial sheet metal that pulls the rust off. Update 3-29-09 The cleaned up version can be seen later in this post.

Gotta run. Wife beckons. Going out to eat.

mickyd

Almost forgot......got the motor cover painted also. Hammered Silver. Pleased with the result. Learned a lot about getting the texture to come out right. I'll go into details later.

a1gutterman

mickyd wroteAlmost forgot......got the motor cover painted also. Hammered Silver. Pleased with the result. Learned a lot about getting the texture to come out right. I'll go into details later.

[ATTACH]3409[/ATTACH]

Nice looking finish!!!

a1gutterman

mickyd wroteCompleted the electrolysis on my bench tubes. Came out pretty good with no effort. Still have to polish them.

In the container

[ATTACH]3404[/ATTACH]

Filled with "the broth"

[ATTACH]3405[/ATTACH]

After one hour. Notice the foam.

[ATTACH]3408[/ATTACH]

Out of the bath and rinsed off. Check out all the junk that is on the sacrificial sheet metal that pulls the rust off.

Gotta run. Wife beckons. Going out to eat.

[ATTACH]3407[/ATTACH]

Looks good so far. How do you drain the liquid out of your box?

mickyd

a1gutterman wroteLooks good so far. How do you drain the liquid out of your box?

All I did to take the liquid out of the box was use a pitcher and transfered it into my 15 gallon plastic storage buckets. As it got low, I tilted the box and used a cup.

The liquid is good forever. As the water evaporates, you just top it off with more water. You never have to add any more of the sodium carbonate (washing soda). I also use the solution to restore old cast iron pans that have all the carbon crud on them. It takes that stuff off too. Some people just put them in a fire to burn it off but that can warp or crack them. Electolysis just eats it up.

mickyd

Got my belt cover painted tonight. Hammered Verde Green. Boy that paint is tricky to work with if your looking for the heavy texture appearance. There is a fine line between getting the texture right and the paint wanting to run. If it goes on too light, the hammered effect really doesn't show. Too heavy and it wants to run on the vertical surfaces. Right before I spray, I do a few practice passes on some scrap sheet metal to get the timing right.

bucksaw

Nice job on the paint! Did you prime before you put the finish on? I'm rebuilding a second headstock currently and I think I'll attempt a more hammered look. I guess practice makes perfect!

mickyd

I didn't use primer. When I had done a few practice sprays on a test piece with unprimed vs. primer (rustoleum white stop rust primer), the texture was noticably different and less pronounced with the primer. This photo shows the difference. On the left was primed, right was unprimed. This is one coat medium spray. These are side by side, sprayed at the same time and the same piece of sheet metal, so the only variable was the primer

I am not sure if not using priming will give me the paint durablitily over time and I was hoping someone would address this in my post "....to prime or not to prime" https://forum.shopsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=3123 but I only got 1 response. I was hoping to get some replies that address long term durability. Oh well, worse case is I'll have to do it again at some point in the future.

When I get a little more time, I am going to experiment more with the primer on steel. Just when I get it figured out, I'll be done!!!! Don't ya hate it when that happens?

Before I do my aluminum parts, I am going to experiment with self-etching primer. I was told aluminum really needs primer to ensure a decent bond and since there is so much on the SS, I need to get it right the first time.

I'll keep you guys posted.