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Restoration Progress On My 1955 Greenie

dusty

fjimp wroteMy apologies. I deid not mean to suggest the tube is out of round. What I wondered is if by some remote chance the tube might be warped a little. I seem to remember someone having a situation where a warped tube after being rotated slightly cured an issue that sounded a bit like yours. Incidentally I have read most of this discussion, no I did not read the one you suggested. I simply decided to take a risk and offer a remote possibility for consideration. If out of line again I apologize. fjimp

I don't believe it is possible to be "out of line", Jim. After all, what we are really doing here is brainstorming in an attempt to resolve a problem. Solving a problem that you can not touch and feel is really a shot in the dark at best.

The attraction here is that wonderful machine that mickyd has created using the parts that many of us would have sold on ebay for whatever someone might have given us.

It is sort of ironic, isn't it. Nick was in the process of retrofitting an old goldie when Shopsmith pulled the plug. Now we see this miraculous restoration of an equally destitute greenie coming out of the work shop of Mickyd.

I sure wish Nick would check in. I know he would be very impressed with what has happened here.

Someone was to have received that goldie when that Sawdust Series was over. Maybe it should go to mickyd. He could use it to do woodworking and keep his greenie in a showcase.:)

mickyd

fjimp wroteMy apologies. I deid not mean to suggest the tube is out of round. What I wondered is if by some remote chance the tube might be warped a little. I seem to remember someone having a situation where a warped tube after being rotated slightly cured an issue that sounded a bit like yours. Incidentally I have read most of this discussion, no I did not read the one you suggested. I simply decided to take a risk and offer a remote possibility for consideration. If out of line again I apologize. fjimp

fjimp - ALL input is appreciated. Never feel uncomfortable making any suggestions. Sometimes, it's those remote possibilities that lead to or help solve the problem. It gets peoples gray matter working and whenever that occurs, it can only help in the long run.

Regarding the possibility of a warped tube, if you mean a tube that isn't straight, it sure could cause a problem like this. I would have noticed that however when I sanded the tubes in the homemade drill / lathe setup. The tube would have wobbled up and down as it rotated but it didn't. It ran nice a true.

robinson46176

JPG40504 wroteI Do not understand how out of roundness could cause this.

You are right, If the way tube was out of round the headstock main casting would not even slide on the tube.

mickyd

I am now home......the diagnostic journey begins......check back later! If there IS a solution, there will BE a solution. I'll look at all the stuff you guys have shared.

JPG

fjimp wroteMy apologies. I deid not mean to suggest the tube is out of round. What I wondered is if by some remote chance the tube might be warped a little. I seem to remember someone having a situation where a warped tube after being rotated slightly cured an issue that sounded a bit like yours. Incidentally I have read most of this discussion, no I did not read the one you suggested. I simply decided to take a risk and offer a remote possibility for consideration. If out of line again I apologize. fjimp

As Dusty has already stated, this is a brain-storming session, and NO ideas or thoughts or suggestions are candidates for judgement. ALL thoughts are appropriate no matter how at first blush they may seem 'strange'. They will be sanity checked by the rest of us, but DO NOT feel reluctant to SOUND OFF. Part of the value of this type of 'solution' seeking IS that of different folks with different experience, history, creativity etc.!

BTW Where is the "third" screw bolting the belt cover to the headstock?

mickyd

JPG40504 wrote
.......................................

BTW Where is the "third" screw bolting the belt cover to the headstock?

This shows the six screw holes. Three hole to the left, headstock. Three holes to the right, motor pan

mickyd

[font=Times New Roman]The issue with the belt cover rubbing against the top of the way tube is RESOLVED!!! Previously, it looked like this. My Greenie now has adequate clearance between the way tube hole in the belt cover and the top surface of the way tube. No more dragging across making the sound of a scratchy tuning fork.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]The fix was a “CORRECT” fix. CORRECT fix = determining the ROOT CAUSE of the problem and eliminating it as compared to the “EASY” fix method which is doing what ever it takes, with what ever you got, and in as little time possible, in order to be on with your life. This method has no regard for cosmetics or concern in maintain design originality (i.e. duct tape, bailing wire, clamps, tie wraps, coat hangers etc…..). I don’t want to say that there is anything wrong with the EASY fix method. I’ve done MANY. But when it came to this restoration project, which I took on in February, an EASY fix approach wasn't’t going to be an option unless there was big $$$$ impact.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]I want you guys who participated in this troubleshooting brainstorm session that your input was great. The cool thing about this forum is the quality, sanity checking, and promptness of replies from everyone. Just like the issue that came up with my need for caution label that was no longer available for purchase which went from an initial postto my putting the sticker on my Greenie is just 48 hours, this problem and solution followed with equal expedience. My initial post was on 4/27/09 at 10:30 pm and within 24 hours, there were 17 member posts and a FIXED ShopSmith, wrapping up the project last night at 10:00 pm. Unbelievable!![/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Before I digress too much, here's the Greenie fixed followed by a few pics of what the root cause was.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]-[/font]

--Note the uniform gap with no contact.

--Guess

--Guess again

[font=Verdana]And again....look like paint remover in action?[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]-[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Three components went into resolving this problem.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]1.Paint on the major contact surfaces of the headstock housing and motor pan was removed.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]2. Lacquer on the inside contact surface of the belt cover was removed[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]3. Tweaking the cover around once all paint and lacquer was removed[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]WHODATHUNK??[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Judaspre1982 (aka Dave) obviously did in his post #206questioning paint thickness followed up by jpg40504 (aka J) suggesting the tweak method on the belt cover in his post #202. These two approaches are what resolved the issue.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Regarding the paint..... As I thought about using that solution,, it started to make a lot of sense since the interference of the belt cover hole and top of way tube was only a few thousandth of an inch. I figured that if I remove the paint on the bottom of the motor pan, it would allow me to raise the belt cover by the thickness of the paint in turn eliminating the interference. I removed the paint with stripper, cleaned the area well with mineral spirits to neutralize the stripper, and put the cover back on. Unfortunately, that didn't’t fix it.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]I looked at where the 6 screw holes were on the belt cover vs. their mating thread holes and they looked perfectly centered. I tried to tweak the cover to bias it a little but it wouldn't’t budge in any direction. I was able to pull the belt cover off with a little persuasion and decided that I needed to try to get a smidgen of “slop” to see if biasing the cover over the threaded holes would help. To do this, I then removed the paint on the other primary HORIZONTAL contact surface (top of headstock, the top surface of the two angled sides where the cover transitions outward to accommodate the motor pan) and I also removed the lacquer I had sprayed inside the belt cover but only where it contacted the motor pan. When I put the belt cover back on, it was still quite snug BUT, I was able to tweak it around just a little. Well, I found out that just a little tweak makes a BIG difference on how the cover way tube hole lines up with the way tube. Looking at the headstock from the operators side, I biased the cover in a clockwise direction, which RAISED the belt cover way tube hole UP off the way tubes. I kept my fingers cross hoping that the 3 through holes in the belt cover still lined up with the mating threaded holes AND THEY DID. They were biased toward the outer edge of the through holes but I was just able to get the screws started. Screwed ‘em in “Good’n Tight” and bingo, problem RESOLVED.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Thought I'd include the first picture of the completed Greenie.....just scroll down to see it.[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]-[/font]

REAL SOON!!

tom_k/mo

Mike, now that's just MEAN... :)

mickyd

tom_k/mo wroteMike, now that's just MEAN... :)

But in a loving way!! :D :D :D

tom_k/mo

mickyd wroteBut in a loving way!! :D :D :D

I swear, it's like dangling candy in front of a kid... ;)

Can't wait to see the finished project. BTW, have you tried your NevrDull yet?

dusty

That's OKAY mike. I didn't really want to see it anyhow.:rolleyes:

Actually, now the joke is on you. You have to either use it or put it in a display case.

mickyd

I attached this picture to see if anyone can tell me where these steel rings "officially" live on the unit and what are they for? Since all the vertical heights have locking elements already, are they intended to go on whatever your working with as a redundant system if the locking elements fail?

mickyd

tom_k/mo wroteI swear, it's like dangling candy in front of a kid... ]

YES, I used the NevrDull until my wife got hold of it. Haven't seen it since!! She's in jewelry polish mode.....

For me, the NevrDull worked great at blending in color variations after wire brushing. For example, on the worktable, after brass wheel wire brushing the surface, it was not very uniform in appearance. The NevrDull took that away. I tried it on stuff that was VERY oxidized and although it improved it slightly, it didn't clean it up anywhere near the wire brushing but then, that is NOT what its made for. It's made to maintain more than restore if the surface is horrible. On silver, it works EXCELLENT removing 100% of the HEAVY tarnish with ease. The white powdery oxidation on my aluminum casting however required a more aggressive approach. I am sure though that maintaining them now that they are cleaned up will be a breeze with the NevrDull. Thanks for letting me (and the group) know about that stuff. I is definitely worth the $4.

mickyd

dusty wroteThat's OKAY mike. I didn't really want to see it anyhow.:rolleyes:

Actually, now the joke is on you. You have to either use it or put it in a display case.

I guarantee that you all will see the finished product before it sees a speck of sawdust and then, I am going to USE IT, USE IT, USE IT. If it trashes all my hard work, that's ok. At least I had the experience and satisfaction of bringing her back to life. VERY rewarding.

bucksaw

mickyd wroteI attached this picture to see if anyone can tell me where these steel rings "officially" live on the unit and what are they for? Since all the vertical heights have locking elements already, are they intended to go on whatever your working with as a redundant system if the locking elements fail?

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[ATTACH]4282[/ATTACH]

Used for any mounted accessory that need to be set at the correct height for ease of setup (jointer, bandsaw, extension fence, etc).

JPG

mickyd wroteI attached this picture to see if anyone can tell me where these steel rings "officially" live on the unit and what are they for? Since all the vertical heights have locking elements already, are they intended to go on whatever your working with as a redundant system if the locking elements fail?

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[ATTACH]4282[/ATTACH]

The intended purpose of the collars(usually used on the tailstock as shown) is to provide a non-adjustable highly repeatable stop. In the case of the tailstock, once you have aligned the tailstock center with the quill(center to center), the collars may be attached so as to eliminate the alignment procedure each time the tailstock is put back on the SS. They MAY be used on other tubes, but this is the primary intention.

BTW When you get around to taking an IN FOCUS picture of your PRIDE and JOY? stay away from that RED THING! It bumped you and got the last pix out of focus.:D

ALSO if you insist upon giving me an AKA, make it RED!:)

P.S. That does not look like citrustrip being used to remove paint buildup! In a HURRY or something???:D

beeg

Those are used to keep the alignment of the lathe points.

charlese

Like JPG and Bob said - your photo shows the rings in their approximately correct position. They are a VITAL part of the tailstock. They even have a fancy name of "Tube Collar Assembly"

http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/tailstockexpview.htm

When these collars are correctly placed and the eccentric properly set. the tailstock can be taken off and replaced many times and it will remain centered with the quill. Also, when tightened down, I have found absolutely NO wiggle or play in my tailstock over many - many uses.

JPG

Just for reference as to the proper installation of the SPT locks, peruse the following #8.

#8

That better than #75?

mickyd

mickyd in red

JPG40504 wrote ALSO if you insist upon giving me an AKA, make it RED!:) OK "RED".

P.S. That does not look like citrustrip being used to remove paint buildup! In a HURRY or something???:D I was bummed!! I couldn't use my Citustrip since it was a spray can. That wouldn't have been pretty trying to accurately apply localized paint remover from a spray can!! Had to use the nasty stuff!

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