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Which older Shopsmith as a lathe?

RexLumber

Hey RFGuy,

I don't see any need for you or anyone else to apologize for any of the information provided to me in this thread. I came here for information and opinions about which of the older Shopsmith models was "better" for use as a lathe. I encourage any and all observations which point out flaws in my plan. Naturally all of that is going to be subjective.

I did entertain buying a dedicated lathe, and have been watching for one on CL. I haven't seen one at a price point that will work for me, and I have been watching for months. But I have seen plenty of Shopsmiths. And then there is the added complication of space limitations. Like I said, I have a drill press (an old Buffalo Forge cast iron floor model beast), and for as often as I use it, a Shopsmith seems like it could fill in when I need that capability. And I don't have a dedicated sander, and I want that capability. The horizontal borer is an added bonus.

I merely mention making the column sections as a possibility in the future. Making balusters in quantity would, I guess, be "semi-production" work, though I'm not planning to take it up professionally.

What I see as a problem is getting a duplicator. The Shopsmith duplicator is not available on the Shopsmith website. That means finding one on the used market, and the duplicators do not seem to be anywhere near as commonplace as Model 10er and Mark 5 machines. Is it straightforward to adapt other duplicators to the Shopsmith? Are there any makes that are easier to use than others?

Incidentally, I found this place which apparently teaches woodturning on a variety of machines, including Shopsmiths: Time To Fiddle

And look at this page!

roy_okc

RexLumber wrote To be clear, I am talking about repair sections for columns, not full columns. Maybe 12-16" long by 6" diameter. If a blank for a 14" diameter bowl could be turned on a Shopsmith (as I've read on this forum), why not what I describe?

Regardless, my immediate pursuit is balusters...

RexLumber,

I think a Shopsmith would be fine for these purposes. I do recommend you start with smaller stock for learning on and move up in size as you figure out how to turn in general and then what you need to do to securely hold the larger pieces. Also, start out turning as slow as possible especially as you get to the larger diameter stock and stand well out of the way, as far left as you can get, with a hand on the switch when you first power up a new piece.

If you're in or near a larger metro area, you might search out a local woodturning group for learning/mentorship. The one here in OKC has an awesome membership with a fantastic wealth of knowledge.

I agree with RFGuy's comments if the material were very long and heavy.

RFGuy

RexLumber wrote I merely mention making the column sections as a possibility in the future. Making balusters in quantity would, I guess, be "semi-production" work, though I'm not planning to take it up professionally.

What I see as a problem is getting a duplicator. The Shopsmith duplicator is not available on the Shopsmith website. That means finding one on the used market, and the duplicators do not seem to be anywhere near as commonplace as Model 10er and Mark 5 machines. Is it straightforward to adapt other duplicators to the Shopsmith? Are there any makes that are easier to use than others?

Rex,

Are we talking 10 balusters or 100? It makes a difference. How intricate? Professional woodturners can batch out large quantities of these all by eye and muscle memory, if the design is fairly simple, e.g. tapered design or limited coves, etc. The more complicated the design the more likely you need a lathe duplicator. Being new to it, you could practice a bit on a simple design and knock out 10 balusters in a reasonable time after likely throwing away several practice ones while starting out. Making a story stick and/or template to compare against and using calipers, it is doable without a duplicator. Being a newbie and knocking out 100 balusters is asking too much IMHO. Like I said, a pro can knock these out in an afternoon, often by eye alone. Yeah, I forgot that Shopsmith put the lathe duplicator on the permanent disabled list, so I don't know if it is coming back or not. They do this unfortunately with certain products unfortunately. I don't have any direct experience with duplicators myself so I can't really give you any more advice on them, but I suggested it because it would be a shortcut for knocking out a large numbers of balusters and easy for a person new to turning like yourself to get going quickly. IF it is 100+ balusters then this again gets back to the fatigue issue related to the low height problem of using a Shopsmith as a lathe for semi-production work. When I use mine as a lathe, it is typically for 4-6 hours at a stretch. Even using a stool, being 6'0" tall I have aching shoulders and neck afterwards so I never do woodturning on back-to-back days for example. Just my experience though.

Also, Roy has all good advice as well and I wanted to suggest the AAW to you. They have chapters in many cities and you can search on their website below. I was a member and used some of their online resources in the past, but it was just too overwhelming for me so I didn't maintain my membership. They have A LOT of info on their website for members to guide woodturners. Their chapters have local members you can talk to and get advice and share techniques, etc. I never got around to going to my local chapter here, but I should have...just too much other stuff going on for me at the time. I plan on getting back to it and checking them out again.

https://www.woodturner.org/Woodturner/Woodturner/AAW-Main-Homepage.aspx

BuckeyeDennis

I've turned several large bowls on my Mark V, and these require a speed reducer. With which you can do beautiful work. But you still have to take very light cuts, or else the whole machine will start resonating.

Bowl blank.JPG

Trued up.JPG

Bowl in extenders 2.JPG

Bottom HD.JPG

I hope to have a big cast iron lathe before turning a bowl for daughter #2. But if not, the Shopsmith will still do a fine job, albeit slowly.

As for the height/posture issue, I'm 6'3", so the SS is way to low for me in lathe mode. If I'm standing up, that is. But sitting on a stool, it's about right.

RFGuy

Rex,

As you can see Dennis has done some beautiful work with his Mark V, but as pointed out it is slow and a mass that size does create challenges for operating in lathe mode on Shopsmith equipment. Not that it can't be done, but these are special projects, i.e. low quantity typically and they take time. The size you gave for column repair should be doable and likely much more controllable than the large bowls that Dennis did, but still need care while turning. The balusters will be easier for sure than bowl turning, but the challenge is in replicating one design. If we could though, maybe it is best to take a step back and analyze the project to see what parts you want/need to do? If you want to take all of it on to learn and grow as a woodworker that is great. :) Sometimes woodworking projects rather fill a need and it is more of the "let's get this done" category. IF it is the latter, I have some advice to share that may help. My woodworking journey started as a teenager. In college I got married and built a China cabinet and dining table for my wife in my Dad's shop. The China cabinet is beautiful and I did all of it myself including raised panel doors, but I wasn't into woodturning then so I bought the table legs from a catalog (limited internet back then). I built the rest of the table using those purchased legs. Similarly, I am not a chair maker and honestly have no desire to build wooden chairs, so I bought chairs from an unfinished furniture store. I stained everything to match and we still use this as our dining set today many decades later. My point with all of this is perhaps you should pick & choose what parts of the project to outsource and what parts to take on yourself. I am still guessing here, but let's say you have a few porch column sections to repair, then perhaps get a Shopsmith or other lathe to take on those parts and give it a go. This will fill both the need and the want. IF there are LOTS of balusters to do it may be best to just purchase them. There are lots of online places that fill batch orders like this. You just have to figure out which one has a design you want and order them. Some even do custom designs for you. Another option is do they have to be round? I made a baby crib and the balusters were a slatted type, flat on front and back and cut/curved on sides. Point being that these are easy to batch out with a jig on a router table after bandsawing them. Easier to take on than hand turning lots of balusters. I don't know what the balusters are for, e.g. stair railing or porch railing, etc., but I believe the quantity of these need to be considered for your project. I have been woodturning off and on for a few years now doing bowls and salt/pepper mills. I could replicate and make a duplicate of one design if I chose to, but honestly I would be very slow at it having to compare against the template with calipers. It is very slow for a newbie like myself to start/stop the lathe over and over to check and re-check a design to match it for likeness. I know because my first salt/pepper mills woodturnings were a copy of my gourmet Peugeot ones from my kitchen that are intricate in design.

P.S. One final point on balusters is understand they need to be uniform and spacing is important. IF you are fixing up a house and potentially want to sell it in the future then balusters and open stair openings are checked by housing inspectors. There are maximum spacings (for gaps) involved that must not be exceeded so that a child can't get their limbs or head caught in them. Just pointing this out because if you are doing these yourself, you MUST be consistent on every turning unless your baluster spacing is tighter to compensate. Otherwise it could be a costly lesson when it comes time to sell.

RexLumber

One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.

roy_okc

RexLumber wrote One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.

RexLumber,

You'd have to figure out how to attach one, probably with some additional blocks mounted to the upper way tubes, but something like this one from Rockler could probably be adapted without much trouble.

https://www.rockler.com/lathe-duplicator-and-optional-replacement-cutter?country=US&sid=V91040&promo=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&gclid=CjwKCAiAuaKfBhBtEiwAht6H79eFfzBG21wx4jI9spM8YRQqwejO4bDtvlyCuwmwJdRricqOCWt0-xoCId0QAvD_BwE

Where are you located?

RobertTaylor

Rex Lumber, I don't see your location listed so it is hard to give advice on finding a SS duplicator. I personaly know of two complete units and some misc. pieces located in NE Ohio.

jsburger

RexLumber wrote One of my questions remains: can an off-the-shelf duplicator be hooked up to the Shopsmith? The Shopsmith branded duplicator may prove elusive.

There is one on eBay now. They do show up there occasionally. I would not consider them exceptionally rare.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/325532711403?hash=item4bcb42f9eb:g:VCkAAOSwnntj6FNF&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoJ%2BrvkQ5RKoy5fc8F92t%2BFxTdYvy%2F1%2BiaK6ZSvMdIJvTMO76u7bNNxz94FivlqefVJ6RiswksRRAUo6IrpYS7a1PZ%2FdM3cPQ2Ui7oPgmNpHi%2B7mRFwgTE%2FAWiw810diw8d6Zi7CIy4GuQlzrwaQgecAvkYl7GpOqw2n6Z%2FeSWLfvUiYuNTvG7mEvTgDkL3XwMHY5aIpIOUMuE7CtUcpP3VM%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_a_tuzIYQ

JPG

Would be really nice it it included the rest of it.

RFGuy

Since I am a newbie woodturner, can some of the experienced turners answer something for me? Aren't lathe duplicators still slow? I mean isn't the point replication, but it still takes a long time to remove all of that material? Do you use the duplicator carbide cutter to remove all of it? Or, is it advisable to use gouges and remove excess material by hand before switching to the duplicator cutter? In other words, similar to a router where you bandsaw excess away to save the bit for shaping close to the template guide? Reason for my questions is for my own information to understand their operation, but also to hopefully help the OP. If they are balusters on an old Victorian house, then I assume there are LOTS of them to reproduce unless a handful are damaged. It just seems like A LOT for a newbie woodturner to take on and will take a long time to come up to speed on woodturning, duplicator operation and completing the task. In short, a lathe duplicator is still a very hands-on, manual operation, i.e. it isn't a CNC.

RexLumber

roy_okc wroteYou'd have to figure out how to attach one, probably with some additional blocks mounted to the upper way tubes, but something like this one from Rockler could probably be adapted without much trouble.

[...]

Where are you located?

Thanks for confirming that other duplicators can be adapted to the Shopsmith. I knew universal units are available, but didn't know if there was something particular to Shopsmith that precluded their use.

I am in Southern New England.

RexLumber

RobertTaylor wrote Rex Lumber, I don't see your location listed so it is hard to give advice on finding a SS duplicator. I personaly know of two complete units and some misc. pieces located in NE Ohio.

jsburger wroteThere is one on eBay now. They do show up there occasionally. I would not consider them exceptionally rare.

JPG wrote Would be really nice it it included the rest of it.

Thanks. I'm in Southern New England.

JPG, are you referring to the bracketing that holds the sample to be duplicated?

RexLumber

RFGuy wrote Since I am a newbie woodturner, can some of the experienced turners answer something for me? Aren't lathe duplicators still slow? I mean isn't the point replication, but it still takes a long time to remove all of that material? Do you use the duplicator carbide cutter to remove all of it? Or, is it advisable to use gouges and remove excess material by hand before switching to the duplicator cutter? In other words, similar to a router where you bandsaw excess away to save the bit for shaping close to the template guide? Reason for my questions is for my own information to understand their operation, but also to hopefully help the OP. If they are balusters on an old Victorian house, then I assume there are LOTS of them to reproduce unless a handful are damaged. It just seems like A LOT for a newbie woodturner to take on and will take a long time to come up to speed on woodturning, duplicator operation and completing the task. In short, a lathe duplicator is still a very hands-on, manual operation, i.e. it isn't a CNC.

I've watched some youtube videos of the Shopsmith duplicator in action. I believe I have a pretty good idea of the effort involved.

I've been working on this house for a while now. Nothing is easy, but with persistence I get things done.

chapmanruss

Used Shopsmith Lathe Duplicators do show up for sale regularly as John said but his example is only one part of it. As JPG said, "Would be really nice if it included the rest of it."

This is something you will need to watch out for if buying a used Shopsmith Lathe Duplicator. First off is it complete. There are also two versions of the Shopsmith Lathe Duplicator. The difference has to do with the Channel the original spindle or pattern goes on along with the Guard. The early version uses a "C" Channel. The later one is a double sided "T" Track Channel. The difference is fairly easy to spot as the "C" Channel is painted the same color as the other frame parts. The "T" Track is made out of aluminum and is silver.

Another consideration is three of the five cutter types are no longer available from Shopsmith. I haven't looked for other sources for these cutters yet.

As for other brands of Lathe Duplicators unless they have Shopsmith specific versions you would have to get adaptations for them. The Table mounts to the Carriage much the same as the Regular Table for the different models do except using Lathe Tool Rest Posts and a bracket. The Frame mounts to the Way Tubes which would be different than mounts to a conventional Lathe Frame.

Something I don't recall seeing in this thread yet is recommending a Live Tailstock Center. You will be much happier using a Live center as opposed to using the dead center which can leave burn marks from the friction of the wood turning on it. That may not be a problem since the burn mark would be hidden when the balusters you make are in place. When using the Shopsmith Lathe Duplicator they recommend a live Tailstock Center with the 1-1/2" long spacer P/N 514704.

roy_okc

RexLumber wrote I am in Southern New England.

You might check to see if there is a Rockler store near you that has their duplicator in stock and/or if anyone in the store has any experience with it. We don't (yet, but soon) have a Rockler in the OKC area, but the local Woodcraft store has very knowledgeable employees.

edma194

RexLumber wrote

Thanks. I'm in Southern New England.

Rhode Island here. About twice a year I see lathe duplicators on sale on Craig's List. Shopsmith listings have been down for the last year, but spring is approaching and I think listings pick up in March and April.

edflorence

You might also want to consider making your own duplicator. Lots of ideas on You Tube, but one of the best is an article in Issue 132 of Shop Notes magazine, which describes the complete build of a nice looking duplicator. It looks like it would work fine for your project. Just another possible option.

RFGuy

edflorence wrote You might also want to consider making your own duplicator. Lots of ideas on You Tube, but one of the best is an article in Issue 132 of Shop Notes magazine, which describes the complete build of a nice looking duplicator. It looks like it would work fine for your project. Just another possible option.

Ed,

Thanks. I have no interest in duplicators, but I watched a few videos to try to answer my own questions on this thread from above. Honestly, it looks rather slow in the videos I have seen for the Shopsmith duplicator and other brands. Am I wrong here? Isn't the whole point replication, but that tends to be slow? I have watched experienced woodturners turn out spindles in easily one tenth the time, by eye alone, than it takes a novice or even mid-skill woodturner using a duplicator. Asking out of curiosity since my woodturning intentions are not for replication at the moment, but who knows what the future holds.

JPG

Replication can be a one off. Duplication can be a one off.

CAN be, not necessarily sufficient.

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