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New Generation 2 PowerPro Headstock Touchscreen

claimdude

I will check the manual for an info on the new overload system and report back here.

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DLB wrote
RFGuy wrote Yeah, I kind of thought it looked like a thermal overload protector, but have only seen these on a few products. It looks resettable, but I was wondering how it worked, i.e. how can it be close enough to sense thermal temp of motor, but maybe the point is ambient rise inside the housing will set it off of the Gen 2 overheats? Referring to that device to the right of the fuse socket on the back of the headstock in the pic from Jack.
I agree with your comments on the thermal overload. The Gen 1 monitors what I believe is heatsink temperature of the control module and takes action (software) in case of overheat. The motor slows down but does not stop, which keeps the fan turning. You're supposed to stop using it. I don't know what to make of the addition of the old-school thermal overload monitoring something else, air or case temp. Is that in addition to the old system? If yes, does it trip at a lower threshold? I was surprised when I saw it on Jack's picture, from the words I thought they were adding it to the motor case. I presume that a Gen 2 either runs longer or shorter before overheating under like conditions. Maybe it's all in the manual...

Phases - I think of this as naming convention. But I mostly worked on stuff with three phases and we referred to any 180 degree (or opposite amplitude) products as A', B', or C'. We called them phases. It is in the same category for me as direction of current flow, I learned electron flow in the service and had to re-learn it as conventional flow (aka hole flow) in college where amps flow in the opposite direction. As woodworkers, it is relevant that equipment labeled 230V single phase will work on household 240VAC (whether we call it 220, 230, or 240).

- David

RFGuy

claimdude wrote I will get you the measurements in a day or so. Certainly by the weekend. The screen looks all scratched up but that is the protective cover, figured I would leave it on till installation is complete. Mark 5 is set up for removal and replacement and the new headstock has a 220 plug on it. I will keep y'all posted.

Jack,

Thanks and we appreciate any info you can provide or feedback you have on it. Just going off of other dimensions of the headstock in the pics you posted and guesstimating, it looks to me like the new LCD display is only around 3.4" x 1.9" viewable display area (or 3.9" diagonal). To me, this is disappointing as I was expecting at least a 6" x 4" LCD display. I know there are size constraints of the existing headstock opening and I assume SS is trying to keep it to where customers can continue to upgrade from Mark V headstock or PowerPro Gen 1 headstock into this, but it is disappointing that they didn't try to get a larger display in there IMHO. Still a notable improvement over Gen 1, but I was hoping for more. For comparison sake the old iPhone 5 has a slightly bigger display than the Gen 2 PowerPro. :(

claimdude

I didn't get it measured last night the screen (usable) id much larger than the old iPhone. I will get the specifics later today or tomorrow. My day job is managing property claims adjusters in East TX and we are a bit busy with storms at the present.

RFGuy wrote
claimdude wrote I will get you the measurements in a day or so. Certainly by the weekend. The screen looks all scratched up but that is the protective cover, figured I would leave it on till installation is complete. Mark 5 is set up for removal and replacement and the new headstock has a 220 plug on it. I will keep y'all posted.
Jack,

Thanks and we appreciate any info you can provide or feedback you have on it. Just going off of other dimensions of the headstock in the pics you posted and guesstimating, it looks to me like the new LCD display is only around 3.4" x 1.9" viewable display area (or 3.9" diagonal). To me, this is disappointing as I was expecting at least a 6" x 4" LCD display. I know there are size constraints of the existing headstock opening and I assume SS is trying to keep it to where customers can continue to upgrade from Mark V headstock or PowerPro Gen 1 headstock into this, but it is disappointing that they didn't try to get a larger display in there IMHO. Still a notable improvement over Gen 1, but I was hoping for more. For comparison sake the old iPhone 5 has a slightly bigger display than the Gen 2 PowerPro. :(

edma194

RFGuy wrote I know there are size constraints of the existing headstock opening and I assume SS is trying to keep it to where customers can continue to upgrade from Mark V headstock or PowerPro Gen 1 headstock into this, but it is disappointing that they didn't try to get a larger display in there IMHO.

I don't think the opening is the constraint, it only needs to be large enough for wiring to pass through. There's just limited available space on the outside of the headstock. The display has to fit between the power switch, quill feed, and headstock lock. They could have extended it over the belt cover maybe, perhaps requiring one of the belt cover screws to move out of the way.

RFGuy

claimdude wrote I didn't get it measured last night the screen (usable) id much larger than the old iPhone. I will get the specifics later today or tomorrow. My day job is managing property claims adjusters in East TX and we are a bit busy with storms at the present.

Jack,

No worries. I understand and it is fine whenever you can get to measuring it. Honestly, these kinds of specs are what SS should release on their website, but complete specs are often difficult to obtain which is why some of us ask these questions here on this forum. I even double checked the dimensions off of the one PowerPro Gen 2 pic from the website. There is one on the website that is almost looking straight on, so no parallax, which makes getting a more accurate size guesstimate easier. The Gen 2 display width is smaller than the width of the pulley cover (left side of headstock). So, to me, clearly the LCD viewable display width is less than 4". I had hoped it would be 6" which tells me the LCD display is more usable on Gen 2 compared to Gen 1 and this is a great improvement, but I had hoped for a more usable and easy to read LCD display on Gen 2. Keep in mind some of us are 6' tall and the display on the Gen 2 headstock is a long way away from our eyes, e.g. 32" for me. In comparison an old iPhone 5 phone held a comfortable distance from the eyes is half the distance away that a Gen 2 display will be. This is going to cause leaning over and neck fatigue trying to see that Gen 2 LCD display which IMHO is a bad design. A 6" x 4" LCD display would have been more usable. This is why I ask these kinds of questions. To some of us ergonomics, aesthetics and design functionality are all important product metrics and all need optimizing for a happy customer.

Imagine holding your old iPhone 5 at 32" distance from your eyes and using it...ideal reading distance for someone with normal eyes is 15" by the way.

larryhrockisland

Shopsmith has posted a video on the Gen 2 upgrade

RFGuy

larryhrockisland wrote Shopsmith has posted a video on the Gen 2 upgrade

Larry,

Thanks! Just skimming the video so far because a lot of good info in there. Looks like in drill press mode the display is still in a rotated orientation, so that answers one question from before. Much appreciated.

freemanpa

I just finished a PP1-to-PP2 upgrade on one of my 2 Mark 7s so I measured the screen. It's 3.75" wide by 2.14" tall, 4.3" diagonally. Give or take a couple of hundredths.

FWIW, I think there's way too much empty space in the case for the PP2 display. Probably could have been made smaller. My $0.02.

DLB

I haven't gotten through the whole video yet, but in it Jim mentions that the thermal overload device is in addition to the previous thermal protection scheme.

- David

larryhrockisland

freemanpa wrote I just finished a PP1-to-PP2 upgrade on one of my 2 Mark 7s so I measured the screen. It's 3.75" wide by 2.14" tall, 4.3" diagonally. Give or take a couple of hundredths.

FWIW, I think there's way too much empty space in the case for the PP2 display. Probably could have been made smaller. My $0.02.

How much do you have to dismantle just for the touch screen upgrade? I'm guessing we have to pull the motor and power supply for good access to install the fuse and overload protector. Is there a "dust proof motor/speed sensor" and is that what is shown just to the left of the fuse in the website pictures, that has to be swapped out at the back of the motor? Wish we could read the manual for the touch screen upgrade.

Jim McCann talked about the new belts provided in the full upgrade an it seemed like they might be "better", less likely to slip, than my original 12 year old belts. If I do the touch screen upgrade it might be a good idea to change belts while I'm in there.

claimdude

Ditto the measurements. I expect the case size was driven by the circuit board(s) inside. Smaller boards tends to be synonymous with higher costs so the that may be why the case is a little large. I plan on setting up 4 or so favorites as that takes care of 98% of my use. I really like my unit so far. Haven't cut anything with it as I just got it put on my SS yesterday afternoon.

Jack

freemanpa wrote I just finished a PP1-to-PP2 upgrade on one of my 2 Mark 7s so I measured the screen. It's 3.75" wide by 2.14" tall, 4.3" diagonally. Give or take a couple of hundredths.

FWIW, I think there's way too much empty space in the case for the PP2 display. Probably could have been made smaller. My $0.02.

bainin

Yea- Stop buttons too small to my liking. With a touch screen the stop button could be 3 inches across, I don't like hunt and peck

for emergency features.

b

edma194

bainin wrote Yea- Stop buttons too small to my liking. With a touch screen the stop button could be 3 inches across, I don't like hunt and peck

for emergency features.

b

Does the stop button start small and get bigger when it's running? Once it's running the Stop should fill almost all the screen and just leave a spot to touch for other functions. If software can be upgraded then maybe we'll see that someday. If you want a PowerPro it is some improvement over Gen 1, and maybe we can expect a Gen 2.1 some day, so it doesn't present any reason not to get one. The upgrade kit for existing PowerPros is not incredibly expensive but I'm not seeing a reason to upgrade right away, and I can still see that I'll do it some day.

jsburger

Why not just use the head stock main power switch for emergencies. After all we have been doing it that way for 70 years.

edma194

jsburger wrote Why not just use the head stock main power switch for emergencies. After all we have been doing it that way for 70 years.

It's not the emergency stop switch, It's the regular stop running switch that should be easy to reach and not require re-booting the PowerPro when you hit it. Being larger is another advantage of using it as an emergency stop. Possibly it could stop the motor faster than just removing power as well.

DLB

My observations after watching the video:

1) 'Confirm' function is still there, but only needed once per speed selection. So, say you are using TS at 3450 RPM, it looks like you'd only have to 'CONFIRM' once, each subsequent time you turn it ON there's no CONFIRM unless you change speed. Much better implementation IMO.

2) Tensioning is much different on the version that you can see the mounting screws, as compared to the version that they are countersunk under the motor pan. Not really a PP1 to PP2 change, the motor mount changed way before the display.

3) BESTORQ belts. I've forgotten whether Jim said new or improved technology. But I bought a spare lower PP belt a few months ago and sure enough it is BESTORQ. Just opened it up. Yes, it is significantly grippier. I'll be buying a new Upper Belt on my next SS order and trying these out with reduced tension. Cooler operation of the Idler is much needed IMO. Not part of the upgrade.

4) Jim mentioned balancing the belt tensions like was needed in PP1 but if he did that step I missed it. Perhaps not needed with the new belts.(?)

5) Better display contrast with the color display, as one might expect. The run-time display now includes both set and actual RPM, where PP1 only displayed actual. Maybe there is something in user settings, but this is not useful to me. I'd rather see actual temp and actual RPM, I usually have a pretty good idea what it is set for.

6) My impression is that the new enclosed speed sensor is not applicable to PP1 to PP2 upgrade. The speed sensor cable appears to now enter the motor body, so I'm thinking the speed sensor is now enclosed within the motor rather than under the fan shroud as in PP1. Possibly also implemented in all motors since the mounts changed.(?) This one is a disappointment, but this is consistent with not seeing a new sensor in the retrofit kit.

7) As an airplane guy, I didn't love the power wire routing from switch to fuse to thermal disconnect. Maybe it's better than it looked in the video, but I thought the power wires seemed close to moving parts (the quill). Kind of a two dimensional look in the video, but I'd consider taking steps to control those wires. Chaffing of insulation can lead to a short circuit. I wish Jim had discussed the reasons for these changes as they could be put on PP1 without going to PP2 if they are useful.

- David

larryhrockisland

DLB wrote
My observations after watching the video:

6) My impression is that the new enclosed speed sensor is not applicable to PP1 to PP2 upgrade. The speed sensor cable appears to now enter the motor body, so I'm thinking the speed sensor is now enclosed within the motor rather than under the fan shroud as in PP1. Possibly also implemented in all motors since the mounts changed.(?) This one is a disappointment, but this is consistent with not seeing a new sensor in the retrofit kit.

David

Anybody have an i.d. On this part? Jim mention balancing the belts at 2:41:02 and at 2:41:19. Everything is being buttoned up. Maybe edited out?

RFGuy

DLB wrote My observations after watching the video:

...

- David

David,

Thanks for the excellent summary and feedback. Appreciated. Video was just too long for me to watch all of it, but I did skim some sections. Yeah, wiring harness safety with PowerPro Gen 1 was a concern of mine based on past discussions here considering how compact everything is inside of the headstock. Those belts sounds interesting. Thanks.

DLB

larryhrockisland wrote Anybody have an i.d. On this part? Jim mention balancing the belts at 2:41:02 and at 2:41:19. Everything is being buttoned up. Maybe edited out?

IMG_0761.jpeg

That is the extension piece that allows the quill feed lock to work with the longer quill feed. I didn't note reference times on the video, but Jim explains/uses it when installing the new quill feed. In combination, these move the quill feed lock outboard to provide clearance for the new display.

- David

DLB

RFGuy wrote Those belts sounds interesting. Thanks.

IIRC, the improved upper belt would also work on a conventional headstock. Whether it is needed or useful is another matter. But if I was running the new style Idler bearings I'd strongly consider it. I don't have a high opinion of the current Idler bearings, but the older water-pump style are relatively bullet proof.

- David

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