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circular saw blade choices

GEC

i am relatively new to the shopsmith table saw (Mark V 1980). The machine came with shopsmith steel blades and I am shopping for good carbide combination blade with a flat raker tooth to allow flat bottoms on rabbets and small dados. The only 10" 40 tooth combos, that also have a flat raker every 4 teeth or so, are pretty expensive (ridgecarbide or Woodworker ~ $180-200). Plus the Woodworker or other will require 5/8" arbor ($35).

I found an 8" Freud blade 40T ABT-R at a good price $65 but they do not make a 10" version. Any comments on using an 8" blade instead of 10" or other suggestions or solutions? Should I bite the bullet for a RidgeCarbide knowing that I will not have enough use to require 3-5 sharpenings!

edma194

8" is fine for a dado blade. Won't give you much cutting depth for general purpose work though. I just got a Freud Box Joint Cutter set for dados from Amazon for under $70. Provides a nice flat bottom. It only makes 1/4" and 3/8" wide cuts but I doubt I'll ever need more than 2 passes for any dado. I need a good 10" general purpose blade but I'll wait until I stop cutting a bunch of 2X lumber to invest in something better. Don't throw away your old steel blades, you can still make clocks out of them.

chapmanruss

As Ed said,

Won't give you much cutting depth for general purpose work though.

Using an 8" Saw Blade for rabbets and small dados would be fine. You lose an inch of cutting depth going from a 10" blade down to an 8" blade. That fine for those specific tasks.

larryhrockisland

The Diablo D1050X Combination Blade claims to have raker teeth. $40 at Home Depot. Harbor Freight’s $20 Bauer 10” 50T claims to compare to the Diablo. I think Freud has one for round $80.

DLB

I have two versions of carbide tipped combination blades with the SS logo, one NIB normal kerf and a newer but used thin kerf. My thin kerf has a flat tooth every fifth tooth and, of course, 1-1/4" arbor. But I cannot tell if this is the same thing they are selling now as it looks nothing like the picture in the on-line catalog. But the picture also does not look like a combination blade. Mine does look like the combination blade in this picture of a three-blade set: (https://www.shopsmith.com/product-page/carbide-tipped-specialty-saw-blade-package-for-mark-7-mark-v-520-510-505). My best guess is that if you ordered a standard (which is now thin kerf) combination blade you'd get one like mine with a flat tooth every fifth tooth. Perhaps someone that has bought one more recently can confirm.(?) I like this blade and have nothing bad to say about it, though I initially didn't want a think kerf blade.

Note - the three blade set I linked was not previously called a specialty saw blade set. It appears to contain a Rip, Crosscut, and Combination blade, 1-1/4" arbors. 'Specialty' has previously referred to plywood, non-ferrous metals, and plastics, all with 5/8" arbors. The new web site is a work in progress.

I think you can also get the Woodworker with a 1-1/4" arbor if your order direct from Forrest. But I wouldn't really recommend this in your case. You said you are new to the machine as a TS. Some don't like it or even hate it. You'll be better off with the 5/8" arbor on an expensive blade if you find you dislike the SS in this role. I initially didn't like my machine as a TS, but later changed to a Model 520 and found it was much more to my liking.

- David

GEC

Thanks for all those thoughtful comments. Russ pointed me toward two combination blades with raker teeth -thanks!. They are 50 tooth that brings my next question: How important is the rule of two teeth in the work piece? specifically would 3 or 4 teeth in the work give burning a normal speed (3400 rpm)? I expect to be cutting some 8/4 and 6/4 as well as thinner stock. Would slowing the speed be appropriate on the thicker stock? Other related issues and advice for a learning woodworker?

Greg

JPG

If it is burning, slow it down(rpm and/or feed rate).

I will be interested in what others say regarding thy tooth count question.

RFGuy

Guess I am in the minority here. I believe you definitely get what you pay for. I have a Forrest Woodworker II (1-1/4" arbor) on my 520. It cuts great, even on 8/4 cherry. With ANY sawblade you do need to clean them regularly as the build up of residue on the blade significantly affect its performance. Also, I find I have to tighten the belt tighter than I would expect to need to in order to keep it from burning hard stuff like 8/4 cherry. Feed rate also makes a difference as JPG points out. I had several of the stock Shopsmith sawblades in the past, but it was like a night and day difference, for me, when I switched to the Forrest blade. Over the years I have seen others rave about how cheap this brand blade is, or that brand blade is, and often they own several of them necessitating the need to have multiple arbors. I only have 2 sawblades that I use regularly on my 520, a dado stack and that Forrest Woodworker II. That's it. So, if one is purchasing several cheaper blades over a given time, why not buy one high quality blade instead? Yes, it is expensive and when I bought mine a few years ago it wasn't $200. I am surprised it is that high now, but I probably paid $150 after tax for it if I can remember correctly. Not trying to talk you into a Forrest blade, but just point out that quality is important and you get what you pay for. Hope this helps.

DLB

There are a wide variety of Forrest Woodworker II's including rip and crosscut versions. The one identified as "all purpose" and most popular has 40 teeth, does not appear to have the raker that the OP wants, and has a price tag of $254 with the 1-1/4" arbor hole. ($20 less in 5/8" arbor.) It appears to be available in three kerf widths, all the same price. Thin kerf is strongly recommended ("A MUST for saw machines with 1.5 HP or less"). They appear to be available at much lower prices elsewhere, but I don't think that most of those sources offer your choice of arbor diameter. Everything I've read would lead me to expect this to be a wonderful blade. But not that I would no longer need/want a dedicated rip blade. On RFGuy's recommendation this will be my next all purpose blade, though I won't expect to use it for all purposes.

Personally I give the recent (current?) thin kerf Shopsmith offerings high marks. Far superior, IMO, than box store blades (which I also use) but at a higher price. I'm not inclined to use my best blades to build a chicken coop, cut MDF, etc. Perhaps this habit is leftover from the days of HSS, but I don't think so.

I use a dedicated rip blade for ripping hardwoods. I guess that means I support the two tooth theory or rule, though I didn't know it before. And only as it pertains to ripping hardwoods.

- David

RFGuy

I guess I am in the camp of thin kerf blades are NOT needed/undesirable. I liked Stumpy Nubbs take on it in the video below. I guess if I had one of the older Mark V's with the smaller 3/4 HP motor then I might think differently. My 520 (non-PowerPro) cuts just fine, provided I do as I said, keep a high quality blade on it, keep that sawblade clean and keep that belt tight. Would I love more HP for cuts? Sure. Do I need it for most of what I do? No. In my opinion, thin kerf blades are overhyped. They are sold for underpowered circular saws, and/or battery powered circular saws...and they are sold for light duty contractor tablesaws that are also underpowered, especially if battery powered. I see the sawblade market as being driven by an aggressive marketing push towards thin kerf sawblades (often times prices are nearly the same, but you get less carbide - hint more profit margin for manufacturer). My guess, is many who purchase thin kerf sawblades, don't clean their sawblade often enough and simply purchase a new inexpensive thin kerf sawblade any time it doesn't cut well. More than once, I thought my Woodworker II needed to be sharpened so I investigated finding a local service to do it for me. I opted instead to give it a thorough cleaning and was surprised just how sharp those carbide teeth were to my poor little fingers when I ran them across it (confirming it didn't need sharpening). I still haven't needed to sharpen my Woodworker II yet. Mine is a 30 tooth ripping blade that does only occasional crosscuts. I do most of my crosscuts with either my 12" chop saw or my Festool tracksaw. IF I did more crosscuts on my 520, I would purchase a higher tooth count Woodworker II to accompany my ripping blade.

GEC

Apologies to LarryH, it was he that pointed me to Diablo and Freud blades with flat raker teeth. These are 50T and I worry a little about the number of teeth in my work when cutting thicker stock or ripping. Any thoughts on 50T vs 40T combination blades vis a vis heat (burning), feed rate etc?

jsburger

GEC wrote Apologies to LarryH, it was he that pointed me to Diablo and Freud blades with flat raker teeth. These are 50T and I worry a little about the number of teeth in my work when cutting thicker stock or ripping. Any thoughts on 50T vs 40T combination blades vis a vis heat (burning), feed rate etc?

First, I am totally with RFGuy on his comments on the Forrest WW II. I have the Forrest 40 tooth combination blade on both my SS 520 and my Powermatic PM 2000 cabinet saw. I will never buy a different blade. A 50 tooth blade is not a rip blade regardless of the tooth configuration. A true rip blade is 24 tooth. Why they are typically flat top teeth is unknown to me. After all a rip cut is normally a through cut. Probably just more efficient and maybe better chip clearing???

As RFGuy said you get what you pay for. If you have never experienced a premium saw blade you don't know what you are missing. Yes they are expensive but it is a once in a lifetime purchase if properly taken care of. By the time you replace 3 or 4 cheaper saw blade you could have bought a Forrest. Forrest has a first class sharpening service as well as total repair back to factory specs.

Forrest will drill their blades to different arbor sizes for a fee. No reason to pay the price for a 1 1/4" hole. just get the 5/8" hole and buy a 5/8" SS arbor. That way you can use the 5/8 arbor with a cheap blade to cut up junk wood.

RFGuy

Thanks John. I think some woodworkers just see sawblades as consumables, more like sandpaper or brake pads on the car to be replaced more frequently. I have followed the "buy once, cry once" philosophy for some time now and I have been much happier this way with my purchases and ownership. NOT saying it is for everyone. I consider a sawblade analogous to a high quality chisel. Yeah, you gotta sharpen it from time to time (still on my 1st Woodworker II sharpening), but if you care for it, like all of your tools, it will last you a good long time - hopefully a lifetime. I consider my Woodworker II to be the last sawblade I will ever need to own/purchase for my 520. Some prefer to buy more affordable sawblades. I could be wrong, but I just wonder how many of them they purchase over a given time period, e.g. do they end up paying more in the long run on multiple sawblades? I know there are many good sawblade brands out there and my experience is limited to what I have owned. I know a Forrest blade is a luxury. I have several carbide tipped Shopsmith sawblades here that I purchased in the past and they were good, but my Forrest Woodworker II is great by comparison. I noticed the difference right away in performance. I have also had varying brand sawblades on my Skil circular saw in the past including a thin kerf one at one time. I do believe that thin kerf is overhyped and should have a smaller niche part of the market IMHO. Too many leap at them expecting a huge performance difference that simply isn't always there. JMO.

P.S. Subscribing to the "buy once, cry once" philosophy has meant many times I had to wait for a purchase until I had saved up enough money for it. This can be advantageous, e.g. I have waited and waited to purchase the PowerPro headstock and I still don't regret NOT pulling the trigger on this purchase as I am grateful for the dependability/reliability of my conventional headstock. While I would love to have the added power of a PowerPro headstock, there are still just too many negatives of that headstock for my personal preferences.