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The dance with Lady Green begins ...

heathicus

fiatben wroteOK, I have a question. What the heck is Kroil?

http://www.kanolabs.com/

I use the Aero-kroil. A little bit goes a LONG way. I've gone through a complete ER restoration and now a Mark 5 and I don't think I've used even half the can. I don't think I would have ever gotten the ER apart without the Kroil. Before using the Kroil on it, I tried using WD-40 and Liquid Wrench to get the base arm off the way tubes, but neither seemed to do anything. I applied a few drops of Kroil, waited about 30 seconds, then all it took was a light tap with my rubber mallet to remove the stuck part.

fiatben wroteTurns out it was very easy to knock out the pin. I took a nail that looked about right, ground off the tip and ground the diameter down to about right, a couple of light taps with a hammer and it was a done deal. I suspect putting it back together may take more effort.

Actually, it should be pretty easy to get back together. Just make sure the holes are aligned. As jpg said, just make sure the ends of the pin have a slight chamfer on them and are not mushroomed. I used a small hex wrench just a hair smaller than the pin to help align the holes. I started the pin with a hammer. I set the headstock on the table and put a couple of blocks of wood under the handle to support it. When the pin got close to the handle, I used a small bolt as a "punch" and tapped it the rest of the way in.

sliver

When you replace the cord use at least a 14 gauge. The first time I had my '54 Greenie apart I replaced the cord with a 16 gauge and it was hard starting and finally started blowing the breaker, so this time I went to the heavier gauge and it works fine now. I used an extension cord from Walmart ("Woods") and cut it in half, and added a new female end to one half for a heavy duty extension cord. Isn't this fun?

beeg

If your going through the trouble of replacing the power cord. Use a 10 foot 12 gauge SJT extension cord and cut off the female end.

fiatben

I love the feedback here. It's nice to know I am not the only one in the throes (painful struggle) of reviving an old, but solid, machine.

First, a (hopefully) helpful idea:

292284 165.JPG

I have found these mini-picks and a baby bottle brush to be indispensable for taking my "lady" apart.

292284 163.JPG

The quill is definitely a single bearing which is just as definitely in need of replacing. I think from my reading/watching that this is pressed on. Am I needing to look for a small machine shop locally with a hydraulic press?

Second question. Obviously I'd love to have two bearings. Can I retrofit this quill? Wouldn't that require having a machine shop cut a shoulder and retaining groove inside the quill? If so, how far up in there does it go?

Thirdly, the bearing is a Fafnir 202KD5, which I am assuming I can buy/replace?

292284 167.JPG

I easily drove the inner drive shaft bearing out once I pulled the retaining spring. I had a practice piece from my lathe that I just turned one end down to 2" OD. Good to know my Carba-tec mini-lathe has uses.

292284 171.JPG

The drive assembly and inner bearing. There is some galling on the shaft where this bearing mount, but not bad. Also, this pic shows the wear on the teeth, again not bad. At this point, since both bearing turn very smoothly and the wear on the teeth is very even, I'm tending to simply clean it up, put it back together and put it back to use.

The operative word for this project is "cheap" as in I don't have a lot of money to spend on new parts, bead blasting the finish, etc. My approach is to go with "good enough" and get my lady back to running, but also to not have to tear it down again for at least a few years.

Again, thanks for all the input and ideas.

fiatben

JPG40504 wroteFILE

BTW What are you using the cedar darning form for?

Actually, it has nothing to do with the renovation, just happened to be where I laid it when I brought it back out to the barn. It is for my Mom so she can darn dad's socks which are designed for diabetics. A traditional darning egg has a small spindle for a handle and older people need something easier to grasp. In fact, dad showed it to a friend of theirs and now I have to make another one. Guess I need to get back out to the barn!:o

nuhobby

JPG40504 wrote
FILE the wedges where the wear has pushed material out into the od of the wedge. Remove the 'hump' on the 'flat' angled surface. I would not go much beyond that.

Lady Green.JPG

I don't have a big "body" of experience here to add. However following one experience I decided to always use new lock-wedges. With a filed old wedge I had, it made a squeaky sound every time I tightened it. The new wedge was very quiet. Something about the quality (or the angle) of the wedge surface bearing on the tube?

GOOD LUCK WITH LADY GREEN

mickyd

JPG40504 wroteThis could come in handy!!!!! It is a pita to use, but does get the job done! Yes the bearings are near zero clearance on the shaft(both the main shaft and the quill).

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/itemdisplay/displayItem.do?itemid=93980&CategoryName=&SubCategoryName=

After reviewing this link, I am concerned that they may no longer be commonly available(no price listed...)

Your link is to harborfreightusa.com which doesn't list pricing. You need to go the harborfreight.com

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93980

Bearing separator/puller is still available.

mickyd

fiatben wroteI love the feedback here. It's nice .......

The drive assembly and inner bearing. There is some galling on the shaft where this bearing mount, but not bad. Also, this pic shows the wear on the teeth, again not bad. At this point, since both bearing turn very smoothly and the wear on the teeth is very even, I'm tending to simply clean it up, put it back together and put it back to use.

........

Again, thanks for all the input and ideas.

You'll want to test your Gilmer drive clutch to make sure that it is within the expected slip range of 10-20 foot-lbs, otherwise, bye-bye Gilmer belt should you have a jam.

This thread shows the complete disassemble and torque test. As a minimum, do the torque test. Post 5 shows the actual test. This post, forth picture shows a better clamping method than the one I used.

Your documenting your work very nicely. Great pics.

fiatben

I think too much while working on this. I need to crank my boombox up louder.

I got back to cleaning parts now that absolutely everything is out of the headstock. This afternoon I was looking at my "porkchop" (and wondering how it came to be called this).

292284 176.JPG

Shown here in the approx. position for high speed. It was hard to turn the worm by hand. I could see a lot of impacted sawdust in the teeth so I grabbed my trusty mini-pick and turned the screw (with difficulty) until is was free of the quadrant assembly.

292284 178.JPG

The teeth were quite worn and I think it is because of all the material impactedwas forcing the screw into the teeth, especially if a PO tried to change speed in a hurry. So I got out my needle files and dressed the faces of the teeth as best I could, removing burs and galls and flattening them back out.

292284 180.JPG

While at some point I may consider replacing the quadrant assembly (Ref #86 - pn504221), I am confident this will work smoothly for the foreseeable future. I may, however, pull this assembly from time to time to keep it nice and clean to prevent further damage to the teeth.

It now turns much easier and smoothly.

A question;

292284 184.JPG

how much play should be in this pinned connection between the quadrant assembly and the speed control bracket?

292284 185.JPG

JPG

fiatben wroteI think too much while working on this. I need to crank my boombox up louder.

I got back to cleaning parts now that absolutely everything is out of the headstock. This afternoon I was looking at my "porkchop" (and wondering how it came to be called this).

[ATTACH]8288[/ATTACH]

Shown here in the approx. position for high speed. It was hard to turn the worm by hand. I could see a lot of impacted sawdust in the teeth so I grabbed my trusty mini-pick and turned the screw (with difficulty) until is was free of the quadrant assembly.

[ATTACH]8289[/ATTACH]

The teeth were quite worn and I think it is because of all the material impactedwas forcing the screw into the teeth, especially if a PO tried to change speed in a hurry. So I got out my needle files and dressed the faces of the teeth as best I could, removing burs and galls and flattening them back out.

[ATTACH]8290[/ATTACH]

While at some point I may consider replacing the quadrant assembly (Ref #86 - pn504221), I am confident this will work smoothly for the foreseeable future. I may, however, pull this assembly from time to time to keep it nice and clean to prevent further damage to the teeth.

It now turns much easier and smoothly.

A question]8291[/ATTACH]

how much play should be in this pinned connection between the quadrant assembly and the speed control bracket?

The last pix of the speed control shows a common 'problem'. It is what causes the abnormal wear on the quadrant gear. The legs are 'bent' and yes there is too much side play. The worm gear is not centered on the quadrant gear.

A contributing factor to this 'problem', is the rollpin(sorry mike, that is what ss calls them). It increases the amount of slop. I do not know if the bent legs are the result of forcing the speed control, or by insertion of the roll pin.

In any event, the 'fix' involves carefully bending them back to straight, and replacing the roll pin with a 10-32 screw, nut, and lockwashers. PM Bill mayo & he can send you info.

It is his fix!

mickyd

JPG40504 wroteThe last pix of the speed control shows a common 'problem'. It is what causes the abnormal wear on the quadrant gear. The legs are 'bent' and yes there is too much side play. The worm gear is not centered on the quadrant gear.

A contributing factor to this 'problem', is the rollpin(sorry mike, that is what ss calls them). It increases the amount of slop. I do not know if the bent legs are the result of forcing the speed control, or by insertion of the roll pin.

In any event, the 'fix' involves carefully bending them back to straight, and replacing the roll pin with a 10-32 screw, nut, and lockwashers. PM Bill mayo & he can send you info.

It is his fix!

I'd let the screw, washer, nut do the straightning with the porkchop in place vs. trying to straighten the ear by hand. The difference between a straightened casting and a broken casting is minuscule.

(forgiven jpg.....long as ya know the difference:D )

fiatben

JPG40504 wrote In any event, the 'fix' involves carefully bending them back to straight, and replacing the roll pin with a 10-32 screw, nut, and lockwashers. PM Bill mayo & he can send you info.

It is his fix!

:) I like it. Will do. Thanks guys.

fiatben

Amongst this lengthy thread I have posed a couple of questions for which I now need answers because it is what is next.

1. In Drew's video he uses a board to depress the cap over the spring on the motor's shaft to pull the sheaves. I do not have a cap. Is there a relatively easy way to do this?

2. To what extent can I rebuild my quill myself. I know I can pull the old pulley, but will it require a press to put the new one back on? And, can an old single bearing quill be retrofitted with a second bearing? Mine is a solid one piece shaft.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll remember something else as soon as I leave here.

Thanks guys.

heathicus

fiatben wrote1. In Drew's video he uses a board to depress the cap over the spring on the motor's shaft to pull the sheaves. I do not have a cap. Is there a relatively easy way to do this?

I'm not sure I understand the question. So I'll explain the method I used to remove the spring and motor sheave. I found a scrap 1x4 board about 8" long and drilled a 1" hole in the middle of it. I put the hole over the motor shaft and pushed it against the motor, compressing the spring. I then rotated the board so that one end of it was under (and being held by) the headstock casing. This freed one hand to remove the clip on the end of the motor shaft. Then, I held the board with both hands again and slowly released the pressure on the spring until it was fully extended. I just reversed that procedure to reinstall.

fiatben wrote2. To what extent can I rebuild my quill myself. I know I can pull the old pulley, but will it require a press to put the new one back on? And, can an old single bearing quill be retrofitted with a second bearing? Mine is a solid one piece shaft.

Maybe someone else more experienced here can chime in (Bill?). But I seem to recall someone stacking 2 additional bearings against the existing bearing to make a 1 bearing quill a 3 bearing quill! I'll try to find the thread for you.

EDIT: Here's the thread I mentioned.

JPG

fiatben wroteAmongst this lengthy thread I have posed a couple of questions for which I now need answers because it is what is next.

1. In Drew's video he uses a board to depress the cap over the spring on the motor's shaft to pull the sheaves. I do not have a cap. Is there a relatively easy way to do this?

2. To what extent can I rebuild my quill myself. I know I can pull the old pulley, but will it require a press to put the new one back on? And, can an old single bearing quill be retrofitted with a second bearing? Mine is a solid one piece shaft.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I'll remember something else as soon as I leave here.

Thanks guys.

I believe your motor has the older style motor shaft/spring retainer. I believe it has a nut of some kind. I have not had one of these in my hands.

My spring compressor consists of the quill/drillchuck and a hand made attachment with a shaft that goes in the chuck, and a bar with a hole in it to slip over the shaft(with the spring). Not easy to work with, but it does work.

If I am not mis-informed, yours has a washer under the nut which must be depressed to move the spring.

I believe the quill would need to be bored deeper to accept the extra bearing(s). And the shaft.

fiatben

JPG40504 wrote
I believe your motor has the older style motor shaft/spring retainer. I believe it has a nut of some kind. I have not had one of these in my hands.

Yes, JPG, you are right.

292284 69.JPG

I'm guessing I have to compress the spring and figure out how to lock the shaft down to turn this big nut on the end, and then gently release everything. My problem is the nut is as large as the washer so unless I go buy a 1" socket I'm left trying to figure out a way to compress the washer and leave the nut behind.

But, that's exactly what I am going to go work on as it is a beautiful day in the Ozarks with the temp in the 60s and the sun shining and the barn is calling.

As for the quill, the shaft is a solid single piece and it appears there is a shoulder behind the single bearing. It looks like there is a similar should at the other end which might accomodate a matching bearing, but the end of the quill housing would have to be machined out like the front end. Not impossible, not even particularly difficult if I can find a machine shop to work with around here. The question becomes one of economics if they charge very much.

JPG

fiatben wrote
Yes, JPG, you are right.

I'm guessing I have to compress the spring and figure out how to lock the shaft down to turn this big nut on the end, and then gently release everything. My problem is the nut is as large as the washer so unless I go buy a 1" socket I'm left trying to figure out a way to compress the washer and leave the nut behind.

But, that's exactly what I am going to go work on as it is a beautiful day in the Ozarks with the temp in the 60s and the sun shining and the barn is calling.

As for the quill, the shaft is a solid single piece and it appears there is a shoulder behind the single bearing. It looks like there is a similar should at the other end which might accomodate a matching bearing, but the end of the quill housing would have to be machined out like the front end. Not impossible, not even particularly difficult if I can find a machine shop to work with around here. The question becomes one of economics if they charge very much.

This is my spring depressor. The slot fits over the cup and retaining clip. The side notch is irrelevant.

motor spring depressor.jpg

I think one like this with a slot large enough to slip over the nut flats, but small enough to depress the washer would work.

The post is put in the drill chuck, and the quill used as a press.

It is crucial to secure the motor so it does not move!!!! And that the spring be kept under control!!!

fiatben

OK, I can rig up a holey board to get over the nut and depress the spring/washer, but how do I lock the shaft to break loose the nut? Or am I on the wrong track?

I can take vise grips to it, but I'm really not into brute force and don't want to put teeth marks in the shaft.

I'm kinda lost here at this point. Everything else has been pretty straight forward, even for a guy who is no more mechanically inclined than I am.

JPG

fiatben wroteOK, I can rig up a holey board to get over the nut and depress the spring/washer, but how do I lock the shaft to break loose the nut? Or am I on the wrong track?

I can take vise grips to it, but I'm really not into brute force and don't want to put teeth marks in the shaft.

I'm kinda lost here at this point. Everything else has been pretty straight forward, even for a guy who is no more mechanically inclined than I am.

Something wrong with holding the pulley, or keeping the pulley from turning by holding the belt?

It MAY be possible to insert a 5/32" ss tool kit into the fan sheave set screw to keep all that from rotating. However if it doesn't loosen easily, that method can mess up the set screw/tool kit. The setscrew is accessible from a hole in the bottom of the motor pan.

nuhobby

I once read on another forum about replacement of bearings on Porter Cable routers. Similarly, how to loosen that big nut is a challenge there. Experts reported that the use of an impact wrench loosens the nut before the whole rotor assembly starts turning.

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