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1962 Goldie Disassembly

mickyd

ddvann79 wroteAhhhhh. I didn't think about where the pressure would be applied on the bearing. Thanks, Mike. But if I'm removing old bearings that I don't plan on reusing, does it matter how they are removed (with a puller)? Still, I would need a rig like yours for installing the new bearings. I wonder if I can rent one at an auto parts store.

Your correct in that if you are not going to re-use the bearings, you don't have to be concerned how you get them off.

I tried a gear puller to remove my bearings and ended out breaking one of the puller arms on the first attempt. My guess is you'll run into similar troubles with the pilot bushing puller. It's also VERY difficult to keep the jaws from spreading as you start to pull. I wrapped mine with several wraps of wire

For putting the new bearings on, if your REALLY conscience about alignment, you can cheat and use a hammer and some kind of device to contact in inner race. I did this on my ER10 and it worked fine. You can also use a deep socket instead of the wrench if you have one. Again here, it's CRITICAL you don't put the bearing on crooked or you can ruin the shaft.

Putting the shaft in the freezer for an hour or so AND heating up the bearing to 150° in an oven helps but may not be necessary. I didn't when I did my ER. With this method, it's not how hard you hit is how well you line things up. Little taps should show progress. If you see progress, your aligned OK.

If you can wait, others may have some suggestions.

mickyd

Hey just realized you can't use the pilot bushing puller. You have nothing to push against. :eek:

wa2crk

Dalton;

With respect to your question regarding bearing replacement; If you have it apart as far as you have it then replace every bearing in the machine including the motor bearings. The bearings are very low cost and to do that level of work and put the machine back together with a suspicious bearing is a false economy.

You asked a question about the smeared plating on the idler shaft. I believe that is caused by the friction fit of the bearing on the shaft and the smear of metal on the shaft is displaced metal caused by the amount of pressure required to put those parts together.

Also about the bearings, on my headstock which I rebuilt in January of this year I used sealed bearings for all of the bearings. Sawdust that gets caked on the shielded bearings with the metal ball bearing cover can cause the lubricant to be leached out of the bearing and cause a premature failure,especially if you do a lot of sanding.

Bill V

wa2crk

Dalton

I looked at your photos again and realized that the "smear " is actually on the shaft of the quill feed shaft. Same thought that it is displaced metal from the gear piece caused by the force fit of the shaft and the gear.

Bil V

mickyd

wa2crk wroteDalton]

Regarding the bearings, another way to look at it is if you really think they are good, don't change them. These Mark V's can be taken apart so fast that it's really no big deal if down the road you decide you need to change them. For me, I felt that since I had it apart, I would change them out but really, no biggie if you do it later either. (I'm with you though Bill).

JPG

So many questions! Better they be asked than to wonder!

The quill 'splash' from the pinion gear is I believe 'normal' and is created when the aluminum gear is cast 'around' the shaft.

The quill feed 'bent' washer is supposed to be curved. Its purpose is to create a slight tension when the lock wingnut is snugged but not tight so that the quill will 'stay' put, but still able to be moved. This allows one handed adjustment of the quill position. Handy for depth of hole etc. adjustments. Once the desired position is obtained, the quill stop can be adjusted.

The pilot bearing remover is intended for removal of a bearing with the shaft removed. The threes 'fingers' grab the bearing from inside the inner race.

The speed control wear usually occurs on the quadrant gear teeth. The hardened strip usually does not wear significantly unless the control sheave bearing/clip is damaged.

The quill housing should be ok as long as any burrs are smoothed down with a file.

The quill is a single bearing. What you see is a spacer as has already been mentioned.

I am amazed that the motor has not overheated with all that debris!!!!!

Do make sure to blow out the motor(or better yet tear it down to clean it up and replace the bearings).

Methinks yer 3.2 MP camera has an excellent lense to get those closeups! Your lighting is excellent also! Tell us about the lighting!!!!!!!!!!

HF has a continuous 20% off single item coupon published what seems perpetually. Get one to save $12 on a bearing puller. The 20% does not apply to 'sale' prices.:(

Yer doing a fantastic job and you have done yer homework. Ya gonna love that machine after completion(?:D?). Bon Appetite!!!!!!

ddvann79

Many thanks to everyone for sharing your experience and answering my questions. It's good to know I'm not just bugging everyone.

JPG, thanks for the concise answers!

I will probably have this machine broken down for a month or two so I have some time to decide on the bearings. My gut tells me that if I'm going to replace one, I might as well replace them all.

I'm planning on applying current to the motor soon for testing. I can spin the shaft fairly well but am a bit concerned about grit getting in the bearings and coils. Sometimes blowing out an electric motor can make problems worse since you end up with dust in places it shouldn't be.

I haven't had much luck finding diagrams for the 1 1/8 motor. I removed the four long carriage bolts in the motor housing and it still didn't come apart. I removed the black plastic cover on the back of the motor next to the capacitor and found two more screw-slotted carriage bolts inside with king nuts, under a couple of springs. I cautiously loosened them and the shaft seemed to spin more freely. I'm afraid of taking them all the way out for fear of disassembling it improperly. I've never worked on a motor this size, just power tool motors like drills. That's a different animal.

So how do I get this motor apart correctly? The fan sheave is still mounted on the shaft. Do I need to remove it first? Does that require a puller? There is a key/shear pin along the shaft so it looks like the sheave should slide right off but some gentle prying hasn't budged it.

Also, I want to test the motor and capacitor with a multimeter before I power it up and continuity test. It's 15amp, 115v, but what are the acceptable draw ranges upon start up and running? What are the specs for this capacitor? Sorry, I don't have access to pics right now (at work).

As for my photos, the key is lighting. Most of my photos are taken with a camera phone (3.2mpxl) but all you need is something between 3 and 5 megapixels. These 10 and 12 mpxl cameras out now are really only an improvement for drastic zooms and super close ups. My cameras have the feature where you depress the shutter button half way and it will auto focus and that's key for me. I did my first youtube videos with what I thought was ample lighting and they came out very dark. Now I also use a shop light and a flood light that are mounted on movable brackets so I can hang them where I want in the shop. Now the shop feels dark without them! A couple of clamp lights would do the trick. I also use a small LED flashlight for illuminating interior shots and close ups.

JPG, I have found that it depends upon which HF store you visit as to whether they will accept the 20% coupon on top of sale prices.

Here's a shot of the headstock casting after some mineral spirits, tooth brush and a soft paint remover wheel.

Cleaned Up Headstock Casting.jpg

beeg

ddvann79 wroteI haven't had much luck finding diagrams for the 1 1/8 motor.

The fan sheave is still mounted on the shaft. Do I need to remove it first?

[ATTACH]10892[/ATTACH]

You won't find much info, because it's a proprietary motor.

Remove the sheave by loosening the set screw, it should just slide off then. Well except it might be gunked up. Oh and NEVER let go of the the outside sheave, when ya have it pulled away from the other one.

ddvann79

Here's some pics for my 1 1/8 hp A.O. Smith Motor. I still haven't figured out how to get the dad burn thing apart. I'm thinking I'm tackling it from the wrong end.

This photo is after I blew it out and removed the back cover.

hew

On the long shaft end look up from the bottom through the fan opening. There be set screw that you see as you turn the shaft. After you loosen the set screw and remove the 4 long screws on the capacitor that end that is holding both ends of the motor. Sorry you already have the long screws out. With the set screw loose pull the shaft end cap of the motor (fan housing)off.

hew

If you already have fan out and there is nothing holding on to the shaft try tapping on it lightly using a block of wood as a cushion.

hew

I put bearings in mine on Friday. It is an Emerson brand and the starter is inside on the shaft. My fan came off of the shaft easily. Then I lifted the shaft out of the motor windings. If the shaft does lift out maybe something is connected to the points end of the shaft.

mikelst

ddvann79 wroteIt is just a 3.2 mega pixel camera. :)

Thanks for the assurances, Dusty. I'll have to look into that bearing. I really don't want to replace it if I don't have to. Hmmmm...

The bearings are available here in Dallas, It is worth the time to replace them while it is apart (IMHO). and the cost is not that great.

I would be glad to provide purchasing info if you need to know where.

Looking good so far.:)

hew

My bearings are different sizes on shaft. When you get off slip each on your finger and see if goes the same distance on your finger. The was so every small difference. But that was an Emerson.

ddvann79

hew wroteOn the long shaft end look up from the bottom through the fan opening. There be set screw that you see as you turn the shaft. After you loosen the set screw and remove the 4 long screws on the capacitor that end that is holding both ends of the motor. Sorry you already have the long screws out. With the set screw loose pull the shaft end cap of the motor (fan housing)off.

Thanks, Hew.

It goes to show you need the right tool for the job. I haven't been able to get at that set screw because I don't have the SS tool kit or other allen wrench long enough to reach it. I tried making one last night with no success. If I'd have just purchased the right tool, I would have had the fan sheave off and probably seen the next logical step.

Mike,

If you would let me know of a good bearing shop, that would be great. I've been looking at a couple of websites for bearings but I wanted to do business locally.

ddvann79

1. Alright, I still can't get the motor apart and now I HAVE to in order to resecure a washer that has slipped down the shaft internally. :mad: I know each end plate should come off I just don't know how. A.O. Smith still makes motors but no longer a 1 1/8. They have some interesting resources like this A/C D/C manual but nothing about this 50-year-old motor.

Here are some shots of the beast. I've removed every screw I can find that I believe would hold it together. Nothing. One end has rivets in it but they are not structural. Can somebody help?

The motor plate data is:

A.O. Smith Corp

Electric Motor Div. – Tipp City, Ohio, U.S.A

Model: C48L2A1

HP: 1.125

RPM: 3,450

CY: 60

PH: 1

SF: 1

Volts: 115

Amps: 13.5

SF Amps: 13.5

Code: H

Type: CS

Ser: J61

FR: 48

Rise: 50 “degree” C

Duty: Cont

I haven't been able to remove the stud in the work table that holds the trunnion to the tie bar. Does it just require a punch to knock it out? I also notice the exploded diagram shows a "tie bar shield" which I do not have. Did the Goldies come with one? I'm betting not.

These photos don't show it but all screws have been removed from the table. The only think holding the trunnion on now is that stud.

Capacitor End.jpg

mickyd

re motor......I can only speak of my ER10 motor. I whacked the shaft with a nylon mallet and the back popped off. Bill Mayo shared that secret with me.

re trunnion......if your just trying to remove the trunnion from the stud, you turn the locking nut clockwise to tighten it so that you can file down the deformation made to the stud by the punch. Once it's cleaned up, you can remove the locking nut. Use protected pliers to turn the locking nut.

nuhobby

I'm pretty sure those 2 screws near the copper leaf-contacts are holding a bearing-retainer, so they are effectively holding the "wires end" of the motor onto the shaft. If you remove those screws, then the "wires end" cap of the motor can come off.

billmayo

nuhobby wroteI'm pretty sure those 2 screws near the copper leaf-contacts are holding a bearing-retainer, so they are effectively holding the "wires end" of the motor onto the shaft. If you remove those screws, then the "wires end" cap of the motor can come off.

Yes, those 2 screws holding the end bearing needs to be removed plus the screw holding the centrifugal weight assembly to the end of the shaft. This screw is under the tip that pushes on the contact strip. This can be a very diffficult screw to remove as the weights are always in the way even when the springs are disconnected. I use an old trick for loosening this screw and retightening it. I use a nail center punch and set the point at the outter edge of the screw's flat blade screwdrive slot so when I tap the punch, it will slowly rotate the head of the screw. I have a #2 phillips screw driver reground for a flat blade end that works some times. I use the punch to tighten this screw. It can be very difficult to center the weight assembly on the end of the shaft and tighten this screw at the same time. I normally file the end of the slot on the motor shaft to remove any sharp edges so the weight assembly will fit smoothly and prefit the weight assembly before assembling the motor. You have to make sure the bearing retainer plate in on the motor shaft before installing the end bearing.

I have been replacing the copper leaf contact assembly when wires are soldered with a new assembly with slip-on .250 flat connectors so I can remove the end plate. You have to be careful not to destroy any wire insulation to the contact assembly when moving the end plate to secure the bearing retaining plate with its screws.

I will be happy to respond to any questions and have some pictures available.

ddvann79

nuhobby wroteI'm pretty sure those 2 screws near the copper leaf-contacts are holding a bearing-retainer, so they are effectively holding the "wires end" of the motor onto the shaft. If you remove those screws, then the "wires end" cap of the motor can come off.

Chris,

You are correct. That's the "washer" I was referring to that has fallen down the shaft. I have been able to pop the unpainted "wires end" cap out of the housing but it only moves about 1/4" and then stops. The cap moves free of the housing but the shaft/bearing connection doesn't pop loose very easily and I'm afraid to pry too hard. I'm not entirely sure what's keeping it.

As for the "fan sheave" end, the unpainted end cap won't twist or otherwise pop out of the housing. At least, I haven't applied enough force for it to come off. Should I just twist the end caps until they pull out? From a the exploded diagrams I've found online, it looks like the shaft, bearings and end caps assembly are just pressed together. Am I reading the tea leaves correctly?

Maybe I just haven't applied enough elbow grease but in several instances on this project I've found I had something else to loosen first. I snapped off a chip from the table tie bar casting (it was already cracked, though) from this method too so I'm a little gun shy.

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