GFI again

wa2crk

Hi Gang

I don't know if anyone here follows the Yahoo SS site but there is a discussion going on over there that contains disparaging remarks about SS and the PP headstock.

Apparently ther are folks who have the GFI trip when using the PP headstock and now folks are ,making suggestions that the ground pin on the plug should be cut off or GFI outlets should be replaced with standard outlets even in Garages. (not a good idea). Other comments range from SS is junk to SS is dangerous and improperly engineered. I just completed a morning of tests with my PP headstock and can not duplicate ANY of the problems that they specify. I know that this was discussed here earlier but things are geting a bit nasty over there.

Bill V

Ed in Tampa

I think this is something SS can't ignore they have to address this issue. Something is wrong somewhere when you have so many people reporting GFI failures. And if SS is telling people to replace their GFI breaker with a non GFI breaker they are setting themselves up for a huge crash.

Does the PowerPro carry UL certification or not? Can anyone tell me they see a sticker stating as much on a PowerPro upgrade?

There was an article in Popular Mechanics or Science I get both and don't remember which that talked about older GFI breakers that were susceptible to certain frequencies. They said the problem has been resolved in the new GFI's so I would think if your machine trips the breaker and you replace it with a new GFI that is now on the market and it checks out as good and SS still trips the breaker there is a problem in the SS.

I would either send it back or hold SS feet to the fire until they resolve your problem. Personal opinion!

wa2crk

ED

Actually I don't have the problem but others do. I actually believe that the GFI's are the problem. I have no problems with my PP under any circumstances. People on that site getting info that could prove to be dangerous. I think that my son told me that that there are GFI receptacles that are considered RFI suppressed for use in hospitals but I will have to check with him again. I even waved my Ham Radio walkie talkie at five watts of power right in front of my outlet and could not institute a GFI trip. Go Figure!!

Bill V

Ed in Tampa

wa2crk wroteED

Actually I don't have the problem but others do. I actually believe that the GFI's are the problem. I have no problems with my PP under any circumstances. People on that site getting info that could prove to be dangerous. I think that my son told me that that there are GFI receptacles that are considered RFI suppressed for use in hospitals but I will have to check with him again. I even waved my Ham Radio walkie talkie at five watts of power right in front of my outlet and could not institute a GFI trip. Go Figure!!

Bill V

Bill

One question does you GFI work when it suppose to? I know some would trip when the test button was pressed but would not trip during an actual short. I believe there is a test plug that plugs into the receptacle and has a very low milliamp short that should make all GFI trip. Many don't. :eek:

dusty

Should this be a

SAFETY ALERT by Shopsmith?

wa2crk

Ed;

Yes it does.

Bill V

mrblanche

I'm trying to imagine the size of rectangular cuboid clay-based building unit SS's lawyers would excrete if they heard them telling customers to replace a GFI with a non-protected outlet.

charlese

wa2crk wrote...I think that my son told me that that there are GFI receptacles that are considered RFI suppressed for use in hospitals but I will have to check with him again. ...Bill V

Will you please check on this!!! Also if he would mention a source of these outlets. I would like to buy a couple.

THANKS!

wa2crk

mrblanche

The statement made on the other website the poster stated that SS published in the instructions that a GFI receptacle should not be used was incomplete. The Shopsmith publication stated that the WALL mounted GFI receptacle should be replaced with a standard outlet AND a GFI circuit breaker should be installed in the distribution panel. I think that what this would do is to move the sensing circuit of the GFI away from the affected outlet and lowers the RFI interference that may be causing the problem. Also the circuit breaker panel is a steel box that is grounded and will provide additional RF protection by shielding the GFI components.

Bill V

jcraigie

"weak" GFI plugs will do this. I have had several that would trip if almost anything with a decent load was plugged into it. Change the GFI and the "problem" is fixed. It's not always the case but many times it is, those things get treated BAD. Ever seen someone drop one on the floor of HD then put it back on the shelf?:rolleyes:

JPG

Considering that noise is being created over on the 'yahoo' 'place', one only needs to consider the source of all that mis-information! I do not go there any more!

SDSSmith

JPG40504 wroteConsidering that noise is being created over on the 'yahoo' 'place', one only needs to consider the source of all that mis-information! I do not go there any more!

Sounds a little snobbish?!.............;)

notlem

I know older GFCI's were not good with motor loads and a good percentage of them were simply bad off the shelf. The NEC code body now believes modern products are up to the task and require them in garages.

I agree that replacement of the GFCI recept or breaker with new should be the first step, before blaming the machine. While at it a good check, by an electrician, of the service panel to make sure everything is tight and in good order, without a nest of rodents, is not a bad idea.

The suggestion that the ground prong should be cut off is simply rediculous and could have deadly results. A Shopsmith is not a double-insulated, plastic-cased machine. That prong is there to carry current to ground if something goes wrong. Without it, an innocent person could become the grounding path. Troubleshoot or pay a professional to fix it right. Condoning a bailing-wire and bubblegum fix by advising the disabling safety devices in a public forum is simply irresponsible. I'll stick with the level-headed folks at this forum; I see a genuine concern for safety and responsibility here.

Ed in Tampa

JPG40504 wroteConsidering that noise is being created over on the 'yahoo' 'place', one only needs to consider the source of all that mis-information! I do not go there any more!

It may be snobish but I totally agree. I left there years ago it was my opinion it was a huge receptacle for misinformation. I went there today in regards to this thread and I still think it is a receptacle of misinformation.

I would not waste my time there.

JPG

Ed in Tampa wroteIt may be snobish but I totally agree. I left there years ago it was my opinion it was a huge receptacle for misinformation. I went there today in regards to this thread and I still think it is a receptacle of misinformation.

I would not waste my time there.

Thank You Ed. (Interesting that we be in the same camp!)*

Rob, it is not snobbish, but rather self preservation.

I get so frustrated(raises already elevated blood pressure) at the idiotic mis-information that occurs there. Any attempt to 'show the light' is met with a level of disdain that could only come from closed minds.

I am referring to attempts by others re the light as well as my own.

Also there is little wheat in all that chaffe. Time spent here is much more worthwhile!!!

* Maybe it has something to do with a three lettered corporate abbreviation!:rolleyes:

foxtrapper

I've seen a lot of cheap GFI outlets and breakers fail. Many would just trip for no discernable reason. A few went up in flames.

I do rather like the concept of GFI, but the execution of the cheaper units leaves a whole lot to be desired.

wa2crk

Charlese et all;

I spoke to my son last night as well as conducting some research on the internet about Hospital grade GFI devices. The hospital grade devices that I found seemed to refer to color. Most hospital grade ones are coded in red and there also other colors available for generator circuits. This seems to be for identification purposes only. One site did mention that there are some available with lower trip points where these may be required. No sites published any info as to engineering data for the different classifications but I will keep looking. My son has also heard of these devices and he is asking his commercial contacts if they have any info.

If I find anything I will post a link.

Bill V

paulmcohen

wa2crk wrotemrblanche

The statement made on the other website the poster stated that SS published in the instructions that a GFI receptacle should not be used was incomplete. The Shopsmith publication stated that the WALL mounted GFI receptacle should be replaced with a standard outlet AND a GFI circuit breaker should be installed in the distribution panel. I think that what this would do is to move the sensing circuit of the GFI away from the affected outlet and lowers the RFI interference that may be causing the problem. Also the circuit breaker panel is a steel box that is grounded and will provide additional RF protection by shielding the GFI components.

Bill V

If I was going have an electrician come to my house to replace a breaker with a GFI breaker, he could just do the upgrade to 220 volts and end the issue.

OH! that is what I did. Love the PowerPro on 220 Volts BTW :rolleyes:

charlese

wa2crk wroteCharlese et all]

Having done only an incomplete search I found Hubbell manufactures hospital and industrial GFCIs. http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/catalog/I.pdf

I don't know enough about this circuitry, does this description tell what we are looking for?

[align=left]• Four point grounding system provides redundant[/align]

[align=left]grounding for low resistance ground continuity in high[/align]

abuse areas"

JPG

charlese wroteHaving done only an incomplete search I found Hubbell manufactures hospital and industrial GFCIs. http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/catalog/I.pdf

I don't know enough about this circuitry, does this description tell what we are looking for?

[align=left]• Four point grounding system provides redundant[/align]

[align=left]grounding for low resistance ground continuity in high[/align]

abuse areas"

That refers to the physical design of the grounding contacts. The plug ground 'pin' is contacted by four separate fingers.

There is no info there re gfci sensitivity.

They do not recommend use of gfci in life support systems. (gotta protect the patient - let the nurse be 'shocked'!);)