Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

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gloomis
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Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by gloomis »

I have one of the old bandsaws that has a cast iron table. Recently I have had problems getting the table to lock in place. Upon teardown and inspection it looks to me to be one of two issues causing this:
1. The bolt is worm away more than it should be (I think)
2. The "nut" it slides into is worn away
I'm posting photos of both. Which of these looks to be the culprit, and what should I do about it? I'm having trouble finding parts for a bandsaw this old (it looks like they changed how this part works in the newer models).

Do you think I could replace this old mechanism with the parts for the new one? The new way the table locks to the body looks like it would work better anyway.

Thanks!
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garys
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by garys »

Are you sure you have all the washers and spacers in place so things tighten down properly? I compared my 1981 manual with the new one online here at Shopsmith, and things are fairly similar. Both of them show a "thrust spring" (old manual) or "thrust washer" (new manual) that likely keeps proper tension on the table lock. Both manuals show this part as 502699 so it didn't change.
First I would ensure that your table lock is assembled properly with all the parts shown on the diagrams. After that, you consider replacing worn parts.
gloomis
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by gloomis »

Sorry I neglected to say I have already done that. I have all of the washers and they appear to me to be in the right order.
"Like a bull chasing the matador is the man left to his own schemes
Everybody needs someone beside em' shining like a lighthouse from the sea" - Brother, NEEDTOBREATHE
DLB
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by DLB »

gloomis wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:51 am ...Do you think I could replace this old mechanism with the parts for the new one? The new way the table locks to the body looks like it would work better anyway...
It is a lot of parts but I think the new mechanism could replace the old. The part of that I'm least sure about is pressing or driving the sleeves or bushings (what you called "nuts") out of the frame. Someone here probably knows if/how this has been done.

IIWM I would remove the other bolt that acts as a hinge and see if it can be used, in other words just swap the two bolts. You'll have to devise a way to hold the bad bolt for tightening one time, but this could be as simple as cutting a slot for a straight screwdriver. You'll also have to remove the lower wheel, but this is going to be necessary for almost any solution. When you have it apart you can check, but I don't think there is excessive wear or damage on your sleeve/bushing.

Another possibility is that one of the sellers of old SS parts on ebay has some of these on hand. I don't recall seeing them for sale, but that does not always mean they wouldn't have them. You'd just have to contact them and ask.

- David
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chapmanruss
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by chapmanruss »

The hardware for the old (cast iron) and the new (aluminum) tables are different. Although you can mount the Aluminum Table on older Bandsaws having the Cast Iron Table you have to use the old hardware. For your Bandsaw with the old hardware it has pressed in bushings like the one shown in your first picture. The new hardware has slip in bushings. I don't see a problem with either the bushing or the bolt you show. If you have a manual check that you are getting the hardware installed in the proper order. Some manuals drawings, like the 1982 manual, are not very helpful at showing the correct order for the table mounting hardware.

EDIT, the following was incorrect so please see my next post

The order for the parts is a follows - from the inside/front put 1 of the washers over the bushing with the trunnion in place, put the bolt through with the extra casting part engaging the bushing slots. on the back place the other trunnion over the bushing with the washer over the bushing and add the lock for the outward bolt or the small washer and nylon insert lock nut for the inward bolt. Adjust the nylon insert lock nut so the trunnion is held in place but can still move/tilt.

If getting the parts in the correct order does not solve the problem something that might help would be adding a nylon washer between the trunnion and washer for the lock to press between the washer and the trunnion to add extra friction.

EDIT, if all the parts are there than a nylon washer would not be needed and may not be helpful.
Last edited by chapmanruss on Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
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All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
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Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. 10E S/N 1076 & Mark 2 to be restored plus others.
gloomis
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by gloomis »

In comparing your instructions to the manual (oh yeah, I have that...) I'm a little confused. Their diagram looks like the washer should go between the casing and trunion, but your description (thanks for that! Very helpful!) Sounds like the washer goes on after the trunion. Which one is right?
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How I interpreted your instructions
How I interpreted your instructions
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DLB
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by DLB »

gloomis wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:36 pm In comparing your instructions to the manual (oh yeah, I have that...) I'm a little confused. Their diagram looks like the washer should go between the casing and trunion, but your description (thanks for that! Very helpful!) Sounds like the washer goes on after the trunion. Which one is right?
Mine, a 50's model, matches the diagram in your manual. The 'inside' washers are between the casing and trunnion.

Note - it is imperative that the other large washer go over the other end of the bushing, and NOT get caught between the small washer and the bushing. (Which is possible and defeats the locking action.) I can't see these parts in the diagram you posted and am assuming it is same as my BS. I don't have the manual.

- David
gloomis
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by gloomis »

All fixed! That you so much for your help! Score one for the user manual!
"Like a bull chasing the matador is the man left to his own schemes
Everybody needs someone beside em' shining like a lighthouse from the sea" - Brother, NEEDTOBREATHE
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chapmanruss
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by chapmanruss »

gloomis,

I am glad you were able to resolve your problem. Sorry for not getting the order correct as per the Manual. For anyone reading this the following is correct for the Bandsaws originally with the Cast Iron Table.

I did a bit more research which I should have done yesterday before posting. The information I gave you yesterday was how the hardware was set up in a Bandsaw I refurbished and sold an hour later. It is the same on my 1956 Bandsaw. Both having the washers inside the main frame outside the trunnion instead of between the trunnion and main frame. I have a 1984 Bandsaw which has the washers between the trunnion and main frame like you show in the section of the drawing. The drawing I looked at yesterday did not show the hardware placement very well but checking the 3 Original Cast Iron Table Bandsaw Manuals I have all show it clearly. My bad. Below is the drawing from the 1960 Bandsaw Manual. Note the order of the parts. From the inside of the Main Frame the washers go over the bushings followed by the trunnion with the special carriage type bolt going through. On the back side of the main frame the trunnion goes on first followed by the washer. For the fixed bolt it is followed by a washer and the nylon insert lock nut. For the locking bolt the a thrust (wavy) washer followed by a flat washer than the tilt lock handle assembly. The handle assembly is shown separated in the drawing below. I hope it clears it up for anyone reading this.

_
Bandsaw Manual Page 12 1960.jpg
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Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E S/N 1077 oldest one I have restored. 10E S/N 1076 & Mark 2 to be restored plus others.
garys
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Re: Bandsaw Cast iron table won't lock

Post by garys »

gloomis wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:03 pm All fixed! That you so much for your help! Score one for the user manual!
That's a very common problem. People take things apart and either lose parts or reassemble them wrong so they no longer work. This type of failure is probably more common than actual machine failure in use.
I see this every day on old cars. People want to "restore" them, but don't have the skills to do it. So, they take them apart and never get them working again.
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