Noisy Jointer

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garyshell
Silver Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by garyshell »

Can anyone tell me the recommended RPM of a motor for use when mounting the jointer in a standalone configuration? My stand and motor was cobbled together by the previous owner and I am now questioning if it was properly done. This six inch pulley is mounted on the motor shaft and a smaller pulley on the cutter head shaft. (I am not at home at the moment but I believe that pulley is about 3 inches in diameter.)

I guess the real question is what is the correct RPM speed for the cutter head? I can do the math to see if my configuration is within spec.
edma194
Platinum Member
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by edma194 »

The jointer is rated for operating speed of 3900-6200 RPM: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/jointer.htm

This pulley guide shows 3900 RPM assuming a 1725 RPM motor in the 1/2 to 3/4 HP range: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/pro ... guards.pdf

The type of wood, depth of cut etc. will all affect the operation speed but assuming less than 1 HP you should probably stick to the lower speed and save the torque.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
garyshell
Silver Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by garyshell »

edma194 wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:22 pm The jointer is rated for operating speed of 3900-6200 RPM: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/catalog/jointer.htm

This pulley guide shows 3900 RPM assuming a 1725 RPM motor in the 1/2 to 3/4 HP range: https://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/pro ... guards.pdf

The type of wood, depth of cut etc. will all affect the operation speed but assuming less than 1 HP you should probably stick to the lower speed and save the torque.
Oh my, Then I was right to question the original owners build. With how it is configured, 6" pulley on a 3450 motor and a 3"pulley on the cutter head, this sucker is running the cutter head at 6900 RPM. YIKES! That is 700 RPM over spec. When I look for a new, better balanced, pulley I just might reduce its diameter a bit to get it closer to spec.

Thanks again.
DLB
Platinum Member
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:24 am
Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by DLB »

garyshell wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:05 pm Can anyone tell me the recommended RPM of a motor for use when mounting the jointer in a standalone configuration? My stand and motor was cobbled together by the previous owner and I am now questioning if it was properly done. This six inch pulley is mounted on the motor shaft and a smaller pulley on the cutter head shaft. (I am not at home at the moment but I believe that pulley is about 3 inches in diameter.)

I guess the real question is what is the correct RPM speed for the cutter head? I can do the math to see if my configuration is within spec.
While rated for the range Ed stated, typical for me is around 5500 RPM and I'd call that nominal (-ish). That's based on 3450 RPM for a Mark upper spindle, with a 1.6 multiplier for the lower spindle gives 5520. I confirmed this is consistent with the PowerPro "Chart" function that recommends 3450 (X 1.6) RPM for less than 2" width and 3500 (X 1.6) RPM for greater than 2" width. So 5520 - 5600 RPM is nominal per Shopsmith, I reckon.

I tried a low speed on the Power Station once, never again. This was ~ 3850 RPM, max for the Power Station. It was seriously impaired, even with a very slow feed rate. The manual says it works, but that was not my impression.

- David
garyshell
Silver Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by garyshell »

Follow up:

So the pulley on the cutter head shaft is 3.5 inches not 3. So my resulting speed at the cutter head is 5914 RPM. Well within spec. Below is a photo of that pulley and it, unlike the motor pulley, has a bulge 180 degrees opposite the one for the set screw. I'm going to now seek out a 6 inch pulley for the motor with a similar bulge arrangement on both sides of the shaft centerline.
Attachments
ED01C8CB-1A18-44CE-A79A-08F1F31BF52E.jpeg
ED01C8CB-1A18-44CE-A79A-08F1F31BF52E.jpeg (375.34 KiB) Viewed 1195 times
garyshell
Silver Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by garyshell »

Another follow up. I ordered a new pulley from Amazon. It arrived and I am impressed. It was OBVIOUSLY balanced at the factory and the flange for the set screw has the same profile all the way around the shaft. I'll attach photos. But the best part is i mounted it to the motor and fired it up on my bench. And there is no vibration. Hurrah!

I'll post again after it's all back together.
Attachments
Signs of balancing.
Signs of balancing.
image.jpg (516.29 KiB) Viewed 1152 times
New pulley
New pulley
image.jpg (539.24 KiB) Viewed 1152 times
garyshell
Silver Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:16 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by garyshell »

Everything is buttoned back up. I put the link belt on and none of that wicked vibration remains. But I do have an issue I need to sort out. With the motor running, the link belt expands a bit to the point that it rubs on the two feet of the eccentric tube mounting base.
The jointer is mounted as shown in this photo. But I wonder if I turned the base 180 degrees then the feet would not be in the way when the belt expands. I'm going to give that a go tomorrow night.
7CADDCC7-7FF4-448F-84F3-D1E3A89D5D4C.jpeg
7CADDCC7-7FF4-448F-84F3-D1E3A89D5D4C.jpeg (277.16 KiB) Viewed 1145 times
Majones1
Gold Member
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:11 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by Majones1 »

I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.
Marc Jones

Model 10ER (1952), s/n: 72883 (MickyD restored in 2009/10) / Variable Speed Changer / A-34 Jigsaw / Jointer-Shaper Fence
Mark 5 Model 500 (1955), s/n: 309828 (MickyD restored in 2008/09) / Magna Jigsaw Model 610, s/n 65001 / Yuba 11” Bandsaw Model 630, s/n 39807 / Magna Jointer Model 620, s/n 17792 (restored in 2021) / Magna 6” Belt Sander Model 640, s/n 13742 (to be restored)
Professional Planer Model M5082, s/n 003918
DC3300 Dust Collector (circa 1998)
edma194
Platinum Member
Posts: 1874
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:08 pm

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by edma194 »

Majones1 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:49 am I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.
Those pulley sizes were based on a 1725 RPM motor. He has a 3450 RPM motor. With a 3.5" pulley on the router and a 6" pulley on the motor he'll get a cutter head speed approx. 5900 RPM. That assumes those are the actual pitch diameters of the pulleys, but it should be close to that even if not.

In a post above, DLB recommends a slightly slower speed for a smaller motor so perhaps the jointer pulley needs to be a little larger to achieve that, but we still don't know the rated HP for that motor.
Ed from Rhode Island

510 PowerPro Double Tilt:Greenie PowerPro Drill Press:500 Sanding Shorty w/Belt&Strip Sanders
Super Sawsmith 2000:Scroll Saw w/Stand:Joint-Matic:Power Station:Power Stand:Bandsaw:Joiner:Jigsaw
1961 Goldie:1960 Sawsmith RAS:10ER
Majones1
Gold Member
Posts: 418
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:11 am
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Noisy Jointer

Post by Majones1 »

edma194 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:58 am
Majones1 wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:49 am I think the 3.5” pulley on your jointer is too big. If you look at the pulley manual for the Power Stand, it shows that it is expected that a 2” pulley will be used on the jointer. While you might be able to use a larger pulley maybe a 3” or 2.5” pulley would work.
Those pulley sizes were based on a 1725 RPM motor. He has a 3450 RPM motor. With a 3.5" pulley on the router and a 6" pulley on the motor he'll get a cutter head speed approx. 5900 RPM. That assumes those are the actual pitch diameters of the pulleys, but it should be close to that even if not.

In a post above, DLB recommends a slightly slower speed for a smaller motor so perhaps the jointer pulley needs to be a little larger to achieve that, but we still don't know the rated HP for that motor.
I realize now that I failed to provide a response that included key thoughts and left some details as assumptions. :o I did understand the motor speed difference, but was trying to make the point that the dimension of the jointer pulley may be outside the physical design expectation of the stand and SPT mount. If there is a design limitation on the diameter of this pulley, and a speed limitation on the jointer, then the motor pulley would also need to be changed to maintain the desired speed.

I do not know if the mount can be turned around, as the OP was asking, but I believe it is likely to shift the balance and not provide the leverage needed to resist the tension of the belt.
Marc Jones

Model 10ER (1952), s/n: 72883 (MickyD restored in 2009/10) / Variable Speed Changer / A-34 Jigsaw / Jointer-Shaper Fence
Mark 5 Model 500 (1955), s/n: 309828 (MickyD restored in 2008/09) / Magna Jigsaw Model 610, s/n 65001 / Yuba 11” Bandsaw Model 630, s/n 39807 / Magna Jointer Model 620, s/n 17792 (restored in 2021) / Magna 6” Belt Sander Model 640, s/n 13742 (to be restored)
Professional Planer Model M5082, s/n 003918
DC3300 Dust Collector (circa 1998)
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