Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

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JPG
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by JPG »

The trunion pivots are the cause of the issue described. Nothing else changes when the table is tilted. If the distance from the pin to the table top is the same for both trunion pins this cannot occur IF the table IS level front to rear.
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by dusty »

DLB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:36 pm
dusty wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:31 pm After aligning the Main Table to the blade and ensuring that the miter tracks are well within being parallel to the blade (.005" in saw mode), what can reasonably be concluded if when the table is rotated 90 degrees (vertical to the tubes) the miter tracks are not level. (not parallel to the plane formed by the Way Tubes?

The Way Tubes are horizontal in both directions. Zeroed off the blade and then checked the Way Tubes.
Along the lines of algale's thoughts, did you add 1/2" X 3/8" spacers to center table bolt(s) in one or more trunnion holes as discussed in another thread? If yes, is the spacer possibly too long?

- David
Can't find steel sleeves that are thin enough (1/2", 3/8" x 7/32"). Thinking about using aluminum so that I can hand mill them to fit.
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by dusty »

jsburger wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:39 pm
dusty wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:31 pm After aligning the Main Table to the blade and ensuring that the miter tracks are well within being parallel to the blade (.005" in saw mode), what can reasonably be concluded if when the table is rotated 90 degrees (vertical to the tubes) the miter tracks are not level. (not parallel to the plane formed by the Way Tubes?

The Way Tubes are horizontal in both directions. Zeroed off the blade and then checked the Way Tubes.
Trying to picture your reference surface. You zeroed against the plate of the saw blade correct. If so that is the reference surface. Then you check the way tubes the long way and they are 90° from the saw blade. Then you check across the way tubes and get what? The saw blade is not a reference surface in that direction.

I would zero across the way tubes and then check against the edge of the miter slot with the table rotated..

Also you say the tubes are horizontal in both directions. Horizontal to what?
That has been done. This is why I say the tubes are horizontal in both directions.
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by dusty »

DLB wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:44 pm
HopefulSSer wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:19 pm What would be the ill effects of the table being out in this manner?
IIUC it would show up in Vertical Drill Press mode. A bit would not be perpendicular (normal) to the table in all directions. Table tilt sets this in
one direction. If there is an error along a front-to-back line then shimming between trunnion and table can correct (or create?) the error.

- David
I gotta think on this. I t seems to me that the axis of rotation would be square to the table top in all directions.
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by dusty »

thunderbirdbat wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:50 pm I do not believe the way tubes are designed to be parallel or perpendicular with the table or used as a reference surface. If they were there would not be instructions to rotate the tubes based on how the headstock slides on them. By having the directions, SS agrees that the tubes are not perfectly round or that they have a slight curve/bow to them and that no two way tube is exactly the same. In addition the headrest, base and arms would need to be machined to a higher tolerance to ensure the way tubes were parallel. The required machining to the tubes, headrest, base and arms to achieve that would be costly.
I think I understand your thought process BUT does this not lead to the conclusion that the saw blade orientation could change depending on where the headstock is located on the Ways?

I have to believe that the Ways form a reliable base for what the SS is designed to do. Indirectly, every function somehow is effected by the Ways.
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by DLB »

dusty wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:43 am That has been done. This is why I say the tubes are horizontal in both directions.
Getting back to the original, help us better understand what you are seeing:
How close to 'horizontal' is your table, front to rear, when tilt is set to 0?
How far off of 'horizontal' are the miter slots when the table is tilted 90 degrees?

- David
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Re: Scratching My Head...What am I seeing???

Post by dusty »

DLB wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:09 am
dusty wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:43 am That has been done. This is why I say the tubes are horizontal in both directions.
Getting back to the original, help us better understand what you are seeing:
How close to 'horizontal' is your table, front to rear, when tilt is set to 0?
How far off of 'horizontal' are the miter slots when the table is tilted 90 degrees?

- David
I can't answer these with specific numbers until I can get back into the shop BUT

I can set the table to 0 degrees tilt using a digital angle indicator that has been zeroed off of the blade.

The table (miter tracks) can be set to parallel the blade. I have posted a revised procedure that works very well for me. It employs table tubes in the front and rear rails and the Shopsmith adjustable stop collars. I have also shimmed the rear trunnion to get the table square to the blade.

Only after doing all of this do I ask the question.

How close to horizontal can I reasonably expect the miter tracks to be when I have tilted the table a full 90 degrees.

I believe that the front edge of the Front Rail should be dead on vertical as should the table top (work surface). All of this being a function of the Way Tubes, carriage, table tie bar and trunnions.

A point (or two) to confirm: The vertical plane established by the table legs (in the carriage) shall be parallel to the plane established by the saw blade and coincidently will be vertical to the plane established by the Way tubes.
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