Large Allen Screw

scollins · Post by **scollins** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:12 am

I haven't, just turned it till it had a little resistance and quit. What do you recommend?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:21 am

scollins wrote:I haven't, just turned it till it had a little resistance and quit. What do you recommend?

Adjust it to make the way tubes parallel to the bench tubes. It controls the 'twist' of the way tubes.

Check it using winding sticks or level across the way tubes positioned near the ends.

There is a gooder way, but I digress. It is far more involved.

Directly checks the spindle and end casting at both ends.

There be other 'opinions' regarding this!:)

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:48 am

[quote="JPG40504"]Adjust it to make the way tubes parallel to the bench tubes. It controls the 'twist' of the way tubes.

Check it using winding sticks or level across the way tubes positioned near the ends.

There is a gooder way, but I digress. It is far more involved.]

I find this adjustment to be unnecessary. I assemble my tubes, headrest, tie bar and base arm assembly on top of my work bench. This provides a flat surface (much flatter than the floor) that the base arm assembly and headrest are referenced to.

I install the bench tubes, position the the head rest and base the proper distance apart and then secure the bench tubes. All of this is done while maintaining contact with the bench top. In other words, the bench tubes are in a plane that is parallel to the bench.

Then I install the way tubes and attach the tie bar. If the way tubes are level (one to the other), I secure the set screws and I am done.

There is no need to alter the twist in the way tubes. The setscrew in question has "no function".

After doing this two or three times is when I came to the conclusion that the new Mark 7 end castings would resolve all of these alignment issues.

The tubes would still all need to be secured with the end castings properly oriented (resting in the same plane) but there would be no opportunity for a twist.

beeg · Post by **beeg** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:35 am

JPG40504 wrote:Adjust it to make the way tubes parallel to the bench tubes. It controls the 'twist' of the way tubes.

Check it using winding sticks or level across the way tubes positioned near the ends.

There is a gooder way, but I digress. It is far more involved.]There be other 'opinions' regarding this!:)[/color]

I'd be interested in those other opinions. Or is that options?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:07 pm

beeg wrote:I'd be interested in those other opinions. Or is that options?

See previous post by Dusty.

Hmmmmm! No function indeed if the tie bar does not rest upon it!;)

Just what is the dual tilt 'correcting' if all be straight and non-twisty?:rolleyes:

Yes the word is opinion.

P.S. The 'kicker' is the final resting position of the end casting be it a Mark 5/V tie bar or the double tilt casting. Either MUST rest upon a reference surface. The set screw provides an adjustment on the Mark 5/V that with the clamp forces the tie bar tightly against the casting on one side and the set screw on the other(Assuming the clamp is adjusted properly). The double tilt/Mark 7 end castings rest upon the pin and is forced to set tight against the 'hinge pin' near the ends by the clamping screw. A 'hinge pin' is located at both ends, but functions as a hinge when raised(either direction) and a stop when horizontal. The double tilt castings will not eliminate a twist etc., but do exacerbate an ability to adjust it out.

billmayo · Post by **billmayo** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:13 pm

Believe it or not, I know some Mark V manuals had an assembly section. Not sure it was included with the 510 or 520 manuals. They and I used a framing square to insure the alignment of the base and headrest with the tubes and the frame was upside down. This always worked for me when assembling the frame.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:44 pm

JPG40504 wrote:See previous post by Dusty.]Just what is the dual tilt 'correcting' if all be straight and non-twisty?[/B]

Yes the word is opinion.

P.S. The 'kicker' is the final resting position of the end casting be it a Mark 5/V tie bar or the double tilt casting. Either MUST rest upon a reference surface. The set screw provides an adjustment on the Mark 5/V that with the clamp forces the tie bar tightly against the casting on one side and the set screw on the other(Assuming the clamp is adjusted properly). The double tilt/Mark 7 end castings rest upon the pin and is forced to set tight against the 'hinge pin' near the ends by the clamping screw. A 'hinge pin' is located at both ends, but functions as a hinge when raised(either direction) and a stop when horizontal. The double tilt castings will not eliminate a twist etc., but do exacerbate an ability to adjust it out.

I don't have a dual tilt to play with so my answer is part conjecture.

The way tubes are not separated from the bench by exactly the same amount - left side vs right side. In other words, the base arm assembly does not equal the headrest with regard to tube separation.

However, in the case of the dual tilt, both ends are identical castings. This slight deviation is therefore eliminated.

Assuming the tubes are all the correct length and both ends of all four tubes are inserted tight against their resepective depth stops when secured, the tubes amost can't be anything else but properly separated in all directions from the other tubes.

Not all design changes are good but this one, in my opinion, is fantastic. I just wish I could afford to purchase the kit just to prove to myself that all these good feelings that I have are valid.

dusty · Post by **dusty** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:49 pm

JPG40504 wrote:See previous post by Dusty.]MUST rest upon a reference surface. [/B] The set screw provides an adjustment on the Mark 5/V that with the clamp forces the tie bar tightly against the casting on one side and the set screw on the other(Assuming the clamp is adjusted properly). The double tilt/Mark 7 end castings rest upon the pin and is forced to set tight against the 'hinge pin' near the ends by the clamping screw. A 'hinge pin' is located at both ends, but functions as a hinge when raised(either direction) and a stop when horizontal. The double tilt castings will not eliminate a twist etc., but do exacerbate an ability to adjust it out.

In my case, the resting point is singular - the center of the tie bar against the clamping screw. I could adjust the large setscrew up so that it would contact the tie bar but that is non-functional (on my machine).

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:44 pm

dusty wrote:In my case, the resting point is singular - the center of the tie bar against the clamping screw. I could against the large setscrew up so that it would contact the tie bar but that is non-functional (on my machine).

It takes a very big wrench(applied to the large allen screw).

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:19 pm

dusty wrote:I don't have a dual tilt to play with so my answer is part conjecture. Ditto

The way tubes are not separated from the bench by exactly the same amount - left side vs right side. In other words, the base arm assembly does not equal the headrest with regard to tube separation. Which separation is greater? Left??

However, in the case of the dual tilt, both ends are identical castings. This slight deviation is therefore eliminated.

Assuming the tubes are all the correct length and both ends of all four tubes are inserted tight against their resepective depth stops when secured, the tubes amost can't be anything else but properly separated in all directions from the other tubes. Except for all the tolerance buildup.

Not all design changes are good but this one, in my opinion, is fantastic.( I agree!) just wish I could afford to purchase the kit just to prove to myself that all these good feelings that I have are valid.

I believe the 'set screw' was never intended initially to be adjusted by the 'customer', but was placed there to be used in production to adjust out any tolerance buildup.

I have successfully adjusted my Goldie to correctly align with a single(or multiple!) extension table at either end with no futzing between. I have not 'documented' that(yet), but it involves aligning the extension table(base) to the quill shaft at both ends of the headstock/tubes. Yes it requires moving tubes 'away from the casting stops'. No I used no dial indicator to judge success, but used two rip fences to determine if they would align to each other regardless of which table they were mounted on or on which end the extension table was mounted. Actually I checked each to a rip fence on the main table. Tis as accurate as 'normal' alignment main table adjustments.

Since the base castings do not have stops for the bench tubes, there is a great potential for the base castings to be skewed which will be reflected in the spt(and therefore extension tables) mount alignment.

i.e. That set screw will essentially affect twist directly, and other alignments only indirectly.[that screw will add twist that will reposition the shaft relative to an spt shaft, but that is not why it is there! - my understanding of that has changed since MickyD had jig saw alignment problem - Bill Mayo had it correct - move the end castings!]

Hopefully the new DT castings will eliminate the possibility of significant 'twist' of the way tubes. That leaves the base/bench tube mounting as a potential culprit.