New to Me Model 10E Serial Number 1077

[chapmanruss]

Hi John,
I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.

Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?

You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has.

10E slpitter.png (315.43 KiB) Viewed 22292 times

Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.

105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg (738.38 KiB) Viewed 22292 times

[jsburger]

Hi John,
I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.

Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?

You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has. $matches[2]
Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg

Yes the drawings in the restored manual are from my original. The leading edge of the newer splitter is wider from the pivot slot I think. Hence the wider slot in the guard. Could you not cut down one of the newer brackets to fit the shallower slot in the older guard?

I too was wondering about the double lines. I agree with your explanation but it seems like an odd way to depict it in that view.

[everettdavis]

Hi John,
I did look at the manual and drawings which is why my question to Everett.

Everett are the drawings for the Original Manual you restored from that manual or did you create them?

You would know the answer too. Are the drawings on pages 22 and 23 originals from the manual or did Everett create them? They show the Splitter part # 103-30 that looks the same as the later ones. I am assuming the two lines by the arrow, not including the slot, show the knife edge the Slpitter has. $matches[2]
Of interest, on the other page, the drawings show the 8" Lathe Tool Rest as two pieces with part numbers 105-1 & 105-3 which is what I have for this early 10E. It became one piece soon after that.105-1 Tool Rest - 105-3 Post - back s.jpg

I realize John has already answered it. John posted his preliminary manual on Vintage Machinery some years before I obtained a high resolution scan to work from.

If you will download a slightly lower resolution copy of that original you can see the source material I worked from if that helps you.

Everett

[chapmanruss]

Thanks John and Everett
John you said

I too was wondering about the double lines. I agree with your explanation but it seems like an odd way to depict it in that view.

I agree it is an odd way to depict the knife edge if that is what the drawings is trying to show. The knife edge is normally about a 45 degree angle but the drawing shows the next line about half way to the slot. It would make it a very shallow angle knife edge, more like a kitchen knife. That is about where the edge would need to be for the Blade Guard's shorter cut. I hate to change an existing splitter since they are commonly missing from the Blade Guard assembly when found. I made a pattern some time ago for cutting out the Splitter so I may try to make one. Another option would be to extend the slot on the Blade Guard but I would prefer not to alter it. I already have more Blade Guards than Splitters.

[chapmanruss]

I have been taking a closer look at this problem. The drawing for the splitter is a little confusing. The line I am pointing at above I labeled the knife edge should not exist since the guard requires a narrower area between the outside edge and the slot. I looked at some of the slitters I have and some of the early ones do not have the 45 degree cut edge but have a straight 90 degree edge.

Although the two guards pictured above look the same except for the slot, the later one on the left has a casting line through the middle but the early one on the right does not.

It is these small differences I am trying to find and document. It makes me wonder if I should dissemble my 10E S/N 4708 and get pictures of the individual parts before I sell it. It is the closest one I have to this 10E. I will get pictures of the individual parts of the other 10E and three 10ER's I have to restore as I work on them. I plan to do some touch up work on my 10ER S/N 64000 so I will get individual part pictures of it then. First I need to restore the 5 waiting ones.

[jsburger]

I have been taking a closer look at this problem. The drawing for the splitter is a little confusing. The line I am pointing at above I labeled the knife edge should not exist since the guard requires a narrower area between the outside edge and the slot. I looked at some of the slitters I have and some of the early ones do not have the 45 degree cut edge but have a straight 90 degree edge.

Although the two guards pictured above look the same except for the slot, the later one on the left has a casting line through the middle but the early one on the right does not.

It is these small differences I am trying to find and document. It makes me wonder if I should dissemble my 10E S/N 4708 and get pictures of the individual parts before I sell it. It is the closest one I have to this 10E. I will get pictures of the individual parts of the other 10E and three 10ER's I have to restore as I work on them. I plan to do some touch up work on my 10ER S/N 64000 so I will get individual part pictures of it then. First I need to restore the 5 waiting ones.

That is a cosmetic thing. Could it be that in the beginning of production they took more care to grind that casting line off and as production ramped up a little less care was taken on some of the purely cosmetic things?

[JPG]

At the risk of confusing the current issue, here are three 10 guards that I have.

The left one is I believe the original that arrived with my 10E.

The other two are of unknown vintage/history although I think they are increasingly younger from left to right.(oldest to the left)

In addition to the omission of the side slots, I believe the middle one is pour cast and the right one is die cast.

Note the riving knife slot varies as well as the length of the rear projection.

The last pix shows two riving knife brackets. Tho one on top is I believe a later version and it is plated whereas the 'original 10E one is not plated.

Note the different 'grind' on the edge of the riving knife. Also it is on the side opposite the drawing in the earlier discussion regarding the extra line. The shape is the same(bends/holes etc..

guard 10 a.jpg (200.06 KiB) Viewed 22173 times

guard 10 b.jpg (171.12 KiB) Viewed 22173 times

guard 10 c.jpg (163.11 KiB) Viewed 22173 times

guard 10 d.jpg (157.11 KiB) Viewed 22173 times

guard 10 e.jpg (212.71 KiB) Viewed 22173 times

[chapmanruss]

John you could be correct about the casting line that they quit grinding them off.

JPG thanks for adding here. The three guard styles are the same ones I have. I believe the slotted one is the first since they have come only with Model 10E's I have purchased. The one in the middle of your picture (the bottom one in my picture below) I call the plain one and I believe is the last one produced. I only have one of these which I originally bought to replace a missing one but didn't use because it was the wrong version. The one on the right in your picture (middle one in my picture below) is a little fancier which I believe is the second guard style and the most common one that has come with the Model 10ER's I have purchased. I own or have owned 7 Model 10E's with Serial Numbers from 1077 to 25951 and 14 Model 10ER's with Serial Numbers from R33231 to 76928. Serial Number 76928 has the fancier second style guard. I cannot be sure when they changed to the plain style. Out of six 10ER above S/N 70000 I have seen pictures of that show Blade Guards only two had the plain/third version and they went back and forth between the second and third versions. We do know parts get mixed around.

Saw Guards with Splitters r.jpg (151.14 KiB) Viewed 22136 times

I believe the top one is the first version, the middle one is the second version and the bottom one is the third and last version.

[chapmanruss]

Well it is time to get back to work restoring this 10E. I have decided to make a splitter for the blade guard since I already have the right thickness metal. I do not want to cut down an existing one since I am already short two splitters for the blade guards I already have. This one and a 2nd version blade guard. I believe if I make it 5/16" narrower between the slot and the edge it should be correct. The metal sheet I have is more than wide enough to make this narrower one and a regular one. That will give me enough splitters for all my Model 10 blade guards. Something I have found is there are three versions of the splitter. The one I need to make for this 10E, the second version shown on the right in the picture below and the third version on the left in the picture below.

Splitters version 3 and 2

Splitters.jpg (200.74 KiB) Viewed 21779 times

Notice the one on the right has a lower slot and no knife edge. This is what I believe I should pattern the replacement after except narrower between the edge and slot.

[chapmanruss]

I have been working on the splitters over the last few days. I am getting close to done with them. A little finishing work and then add the 40 and 90 degree bends. Notice the one on the left with the narrower distance between the slot and the leading edge for Model 10E S/N 1077. Cutting the distance in half does work as I have already "fit" tested it.

IMG_1402cr.jpg (280.36 KiB) Viewed 21661 times

I do not have any fancy metal cutting tools so these have been done with hand tools and my Shopsmith tools. The first two cuts to get the metal pieces to width and length were done with a hand hacksaw. I used a sanding disk with some old paper on it to square up the first cuts made to get the metal to size. The holes were all drilled with the Shopsmith in the drill press mode. That is a Jig Saw without the upper arm in the picture above. A Jig Saw Blade on it did some of the cutting along with a half circle file (still on it) for smoothing edges. There is a couple of rough spots but they should function well. Below they are shown with factory splitters on the PDF of the pattern I made some time ago.

IMG_1403cr.jpg (240.72 KiB) Viewed 21661 times