10ER Tubes

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Charger1966
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10ER Tubes

Post by Charger1966 »

Hello Everyone, I am starting a restoration on my father's 1948 10ER. It has survived three fires but the last one which was last year it suffered more damage than I expected. The Center section backside if melted and the machine is pretty rusted because of the water damage. Instead of trying to clean the rust off the tubes I was thinking of replacing them. The only ones that I have found near me are Mark 5 tubes. I was told in the FB page for ShopSmiths that the only differences are the thickness. Is this true and will the 5 tubes work on the 10? If someone has 10 tubes that are completely rust free I would be interested in buying them from you at a reasonable price. I don't like getting ripped off at all. I also thought about just leaving this like it is but I really don't have the room in my shop. Please let me know your thoughts and recommendations. Thanks you,
Lance

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oWdaZg6TNsAViDcu7

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dfw2uX1DR5GnVmnn6
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chapmanruss
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Location: near Portland, Oregon

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by chapmanruss »

Both the Model 10's and the Mark 5/V and even the Mark 7 use the same diameter way tubes. The Model 10E and 10ER had thicker walled tubes until near the end of the Model 10ER production when the wall thickness changed to the same tubes used on the Mark 5 when it was introduced. By the time the tubes changed on the Model 10ER the headstock and carriage had changed and were lighter in weight. I met a Mark V owner here in Portland that had a way tube get bent somehow and replaced them with the thicker walled way tubes from a Model 10.

You do have me puzzled with your father's 1948 10ER. Everything I have found indicates that in 1948 they were still a Model 10E and didn't change to the Model 10ER until 1949. If I am reading the serial number correctly it is 30103 but cannot see the E, ER or R prefix to the number. The prefix tells which plant it was made in and the serial numbers for the Western Plant (R) were ahead of the serial numbers for the Eastern Plant (E or ER). Because of the fire damage I can not see if the Logo/Serial Number Plate said Model 10E or ER.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
DLB
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Location: Joshua Texas

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by DLB »

Charger1966 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:10 am Is this true and will the 5 tubes work on the 10? If someone has 10 tubes that are completely rust free I would be interested in buying them from you at a reasonable price.
Welcome to the forum. I suggest adding your location to your profile or otherwise sharing it here. I would presume that many people have a set of Mark tubes and if you can avoid shipping costs that seems best. Tubes are available regularly on eBay, but shipping can double the price. Note that some (early) Mark 5 bench tubes (but not way tubes) are larger in diameter so you want to avoid those.

- David
Charger1966
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Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by Charger1966 »

Hey Chapmanruss, The serial number is as follows, 50103 And I might be wrong on the year of it. I know he bought it at Montgomery Wards and I was always told it was in 1948. I am in Amsterdam, New York, 12010 which is about in the middle of the state. I do have a line on some 5 tubes and I will make sure that I get the upper tubes and not the lower ones, Thanks DLB for that tip.
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chapmanruss
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Location: near Portland, Oregon

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by chapmanruss »

Does the serial number have a letter prefix in front of it? Serial numbers with an R prefix were made in the Western plant and serial numbers with an E or ER were made in the Eastern plant. Since you are in New York state and if it was purchased there it should have been made in the Eastern Plant. Either way S/N 50103 would not have been made in 1948. By April 1951 the Western Plant was at serial number R53198 and the Eastern Plant was at ER40908. This is the point the Quill and Way Tube locks in the Headstock and carriage changed to single wedge locks from double wedge locks. If you are interested in learning more about the history of the Shopsmith Model 10's see the forum thread linked below.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=23647

As far as the tubes go the bench tubes were larger diameter on the Mark 5 in the 1950's. They changed to the same Diameter in the 1960's and have been so since. Bench tubes are longer than way tubes and have a painted or plated finish. So best to stick to way tubes.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Opolopo
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Location: Massachusetts

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by Opolopo »

I too, am attempting to revive an old 10ER. My way tubes were rusted, but not as badly as yours. I was highly skeptical that Evapo-rust would be much help, and was not looking forward to hours of wire wheel abrasion.

I am amazed at how well Evapo-rust worked:
10ER_Way_tubes-before.JPG
10ER_Way_tubes-before.JPG (182.17 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
10ER_Way_tubes-after.jpg
10ER_Way_tubes-after.jpg (135.86 KiB) Viewed 1028 times
I used the PVC tube method, 2” outer diameter, 1” inner diameter displacement tube. I found it quite difficult to get the 1” pipe into the middle of the way tube. It only inserted in one direction. (Also, I recommend a dry fit before cutting your pipes to fit. I made the classic novice mistake of cutting first. I had to reverse their immersion after 12 hours, and it all worked out fine. But it could have been avoided…) 1 quart filled the tube. An overnight soak is all it took.

Now the way tubes are free of rust, and need ~5 minutes of polishing with rag or 3M green scrubby to be up to my standards. They may not be shiny, but they will be slippery with paste wax.

Also, the Evapo-rust is doing wondrous things with all of the other parts as well.

Just my $.02

Good luck with your restoration! (I kind of like how the logo plate on your SS has turned into a B&W negative…)

Opolopo
1951 Model 10ER (S/N R46182) Rebuilding in process...
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chapmanruss
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Location: near Portland, Oregon

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by chapmanruss »

Evapo-rust is great stuff to remove rust. In Lance's case he is dealing with more than rust. The fires have left the Shopsmith with heat and smoke damage. The Smoke is no problem but the heat is. My concerns in his case are any distorted parts caused by the heat. Things to evaluate would be the Quill and Way Tube locks in the headstock and carriage. The motor, it's wiring and the switch may be damaged beyond any repair. They cannot stand up to as much heat as the cast iron or steel parts. Looking at the pictures it was subjected to a lot of heat but not enough to burn the wood bench. It appears to have not had direct flame contact. That being said the way tubes may be okay with rust removal followed by polishing them. Is the table warped? All the softer metals need to be checked and the tables plus their related parts have many aluminum parts. Other than direct flame contact the hottest point on the Shopsmith during the fires would be the highest point. If the picture shows the position it was in during the fires that would be the right edge of the main table. It looks like there is a wood top on the table and doesn't look like it has any charring. Many of the concerns I am listing here may not have affected Lance's Shopsmith but are thing to look at for anyone else that has a fire damaged tool.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Charger1966
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Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:02 am

Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by Charger1966 »

Hey Russ and the other guys who have made comments. First of all Thank you all.
OK The position of the ER was in the drill press standing configuration while the fire burned around it. I was totally amazed on how that fire burned. Things that I thought were totally destroyed weren't and things that I thought were fine were destroyed.
Back to the ER, I started to disassemble it today and some of it went really easy and other things didn't . The Table adjusting bars came right out after I took the table apart from it. All the bolts came right out. The bars were not bent at all and the table top was still flat. It was protected if you will from a 1" thick Plywood table that I made for the drill press. The table is discolored but intact.Then I tried to take the quill apart. Yeah right. All the locking Allan head screws came right out of the pulley but the pulley was very suborn. I got it to finally move but in the end it died. It broke and will be replaced. No big deal because it was already broken. Once that was off I was able to get the rest of the quill apart and the bearings. It will need new bearings. That was all I could do today , I had to finish up 12 kitchen cabinets that I was building for a friend. More tomorrow with pictures.
Charger1966
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Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by Charger1966 »

Hey Russ, To answer your question about the serial number it does have Letter Prefix of 10ER 50103. Sorry about adding this to the above reply.
Charger1966
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Re: 10ER Tubes

Post by Charger1966 »

Hey Guys, Is there a place where I can buy the ShopSmith Red Tag that goes onto the side of the Headstock?
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