High Pitched squeal

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Chasboy1
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High Pitched squeal

Post by Chasboy1 »

Hi Folks, I have a 1954 Mark V, Serial #269862.
I sent the headstock to Jacob in Va. about 20 years ago. Tho’ he repaired and ‘restored’ it, I was surprised that it developed a variety of noises over the years, tho’ many seem to disappear over time.
I currently have a squealing noise that ‘just shows up’ most times, usually after a minute or so of running. It does change pitch when I increase the speed.
I released the drive belt and ran the motor by itself and the noise still seems to be there.
I dropped the motor case and removed the motor and ran it again, and tho’ not as loud, the noise was still there.
I had downloaded an article that discussed the “The Fan Sheave Rubbing the Motor Plate” which describes repair or replacement of the offending part. However, the part numbers referred to were not the same as in my manual. I did find a set screw on the fan sheave, but any attempt at removing the fan sheave did not work. I don’t <see> anything rubbing, but that’s a bit too simple. I ran the motor again, and a quieter version of that sound seems to be there.
I hope I provided enough description, my father in law gave me this machine in 1972 and I’m attached to it. It’s working quite well for penmaking as well as the other typical Shopsmith tasks.
Thank you!!
DLB
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by DLB »

I have not seen or heard of one without a setscrew, or at least a setscrew hole. But being a '54, never say never. The setscrew screws onto the key, so that helps to locate it. There is an access hole right by the vent hole in the motor pan, but the setscrew is much more visible if the motor is removed from the pan. The setscrew is the SS-standard 5/32".

There are two places the fan sheave can rub, either on the plate that forms part of the forced air exit, which you can see, or on the motor itself which you can't see without removing the sheave. Assuming you get the sheave off, you should readily see the wear point(s).

There is a spacer that goes between the motor bearing and the fan sheave. I don't understand the wear mechanism, but it does sometimes wear. A worn or missing spacer is the most likely cause of interference. I also don't know if these spacers are all the same, or vary with different motors. But if that's the problem you could measure yours and get or make one slightly longer.

- David
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jsburger
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by jsburger »

DLB wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:43 pm I have not seen or heard of one without a setscrew, or at least a setscrew hole. But being a '54, never say never. The setscrew screws onto the key, so that helps to locate it. There is an access hole right by the vent hole in the motor pan, but the setscrew is much more visible if the motor is removed from the pan. The setscrew is the SS-standard 5/32".

There are two places the fan sheave can rub, either on the plate that forms part of the forced air exit, which you can see, or on the motor itself which you can't see without removing the sheave. Assuming you get the sheave off, you should readily see the wear point(s).

There is a spacer that goes between the motor bearing and the fan sheave. I don't understand the wear mechanism, but it does sometimes wear. A worn or missing spacer is the most likely cause of interference. I also don't know if these spacers are all the same, or vary with different motors. But if that's the problem you could measure yours and get or make one slightly longer.

- David
The OP did say he found a set screw.

"I did find a set screw on the fan sheave, but any attempt at removing the fan sheave did not work."
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
DLB
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by DLB »

jsburger wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:02 pm The OP did say he found a set screw.

"I did find a set screw on the fan sheave, but any attempt at removing the fan sheave did not work."
I'm sorry, I misread that. :o I must've added a "not" in there. Assuming the OP was able to loosend said setscrew, cleaning the shaft and using penetrating oil should help free it up. Let it soak, and if you can get to it also add penetrating oil through the setscrew hole.

- David
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JPG
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by JPG »

1) 1954? That makes it a Mark 5 Greenie.

2) As such the fan sheave has likely NEVER been removed.

3) It ain't gonna come off without a struggle.

4) It CAN be removed.

P.S. I guess the squeal is a motor bearing.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Chasboy1
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by Chasboy1 »

Thanks so far folks! I removed the set screw once I had the motor free. I then sprayed with penetrating oil and it did move about 1/4”. I’m going to leave it over nite. I don’t see a spacer, but I will reserve judgement until I remove that sheave.
Any advice on how to get it all the way off? Used a good, but thin screwdriver to get it started and yes, it did break free. I don’t think any type of puller is a good idea, and I don’t want to get ham fisted with it.
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JPG
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by JPG »

When you do get it off you will discover the spacer(about 3/8" long on the shaft between the bearing(inside the shaft hole) and the sheave. Very small clearance between the sheave and the motor.

Once you get the sheave moving, back and forth with liberal penetrating fluid will eventually get it off.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Chasboy1
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by Chasboy1 »

I got the sheave off suing JPG’s wiggle method. I don’t see evidence of the sheave contacting anything. I’m having a hard time removing the spacer.
I ran the motor with nothing attached, and it seems like the bearings are noisier than I’d like. I’ve taken motors apart before, so I’m not worried about that. My concern is if the bearings require a puller or press for removal/install.
In addition, will the spacer prevent me from pulling the entire rotor out of the unit?
I see lots of mention of the ‘Shopsmith Maintenance Manual” and reference to regular lubrication. I only have the original operating manual. I don’t know which manual to get OR if I should get one? Since this motor has been in place for 66 years, I can’t complain but I would like to ‘make it feel better’. Are the motor bearings able to be lubricated, or should I just replace them and get a new spacer?
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chapmanruss
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by chapmanruss »

The bearings are sealed and would need to be replaced. There is a Shopsmith Summary Manual available here on the site at the following link.https://www.shopsmith.com/getting_start ... Manual.pdf
Your original manual was only 32 pages so adding this summary manual will give you more references. Because your Mark 5 was made in June 1954 it has the "A" headstock without the access hole behind the rear emblem plate unless someone has modified it. There will be other differences between your Mark 5 and information referenced in the summary manual. The maintenance is still the same but you will have to adjust how you do some of it. There is a Mark V Alignment & Maintenance Manual that comes in the Help Kit that you may have seen referred to but the free summary manual will give you most of the same information you need to align and maintain your Shopsmith.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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JPG
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Re: High Pitched squeal

Post by JPG »

If you remove the rotor, the spacer will then be 'loose'.

The issue(with later models) was the spacer was made thinner and tended to embed itself into the softer sheave thus decreasing clearance.

A puller/press will be quite useful when replacing the bearings. HF has one that is quite inexpensive.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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