Maintenance parts to buy (mothership concerns)

[JPG]

First be clear I consider other's opinions worthy of listening to regardless of whether I concur or not. That is how one broadens one's understanding.

Now for the 'contraction'. We do not know if that is the case or not. Hopefully 'not'.

Customer base population? Another area to guess about. For sure the bulk of SS 'followers' are older and falling by attrition. However I am encouraged by the recent ocurances of "I just inherited my .......... Mark x" Also the enthusiasum that comes through at the prospect of using it.

Sadly though the CS issues keep appearing with increasingly troubling details.

I have one personal observation to share regarding SS personnel. No details, but a perception acquired of a somewhat hostile work environment.

Then there are also upbeat observation,s so I think there is reason to hope.

Finally the engineer in me does not always agree that certain upgrades were the best that could be done. But I am not part of the process anyway. I do not know how/why design decisions were made. Monday morning . . .

[RFGuy]

First be clear I consider other's opinions worthy of listening to regardless of whether I concur or not. That is how one broadens one's understanding.

Now for the 'contraction'. We do not know if that is the case or not. Hopefully 'not'.

Customer base population? Another area to guess about. For sure the bulk of SS 'followers' are older and falling by attrition. However I am encouraged by the recent ocurances of "I just inherited my .......... Mark x" Also the enthusiasum that comes through at the prospect of using it.

Sadly though the CS issues keep appearing with increasingly troubling details.

I have one personal observation to share regarding SS personnel. No details, but a perception acquired of a somewhat hostile work environment.

Then there are also upbeat observation,s so I think there is reason to hope.

Finally the engineer in me does not always agree that certain upgrades were the best that could be done. But I am not part of the process anyway. I do not know how/why design decisions were made. Monday morning . . .

Thanks JPG. Appreciated. I highly agree with regard to listening to the opinions of others, particularly those you disagree with. However, by nature I am a very direct and honest person. Sometimes this can come off as confrontational in my wording which is not my intent.

With a fair bit of digging I came across some financial numbers online. I don't know how accurate these are, but it does appear a slight contraction is happening to Shopsmith's business, but difficult to tell since there is only 2 years worth of data. It looks like Shopsmith had revenue of $27.4M in 2019 and $27.0M in 2020. IF those were all Mark 7's, that would have been 5.4k sold last year though I suspect it is a mix of PowerPro upgrades, Mark 7's and replacement parts. I was surprised to see that they have 107 employees.

Good points regarding Shopsmith equipment being handed down from one generation to the next which I think is great.

Yeah, CS is definitely a concern. First of all, no company is perfect and every company should be continually trying to improve. I certainly had some difficulty in getting the accessories and replacement items that I wanted. Getting back to the original topic of this thread, that is what I did last year as well. Finally broke down and bought most everything that I had on my wishlist from Shopsmith just in case bankruptcy is on the horizon again, but I hope this doesn't happen. In the end, Shopsmith CS took care of everything for me, but it wasn't easy. The more recent CS comments on the forum do give me concern.

[JPG]

I also tend to be VERY direct. Have been criticized for it. Confrontation is not my objective either. Setting the record straight however is high on the list. Too much mis-information abounds to ignore when it occurs. Differing opinions are not mis-information. Caused maybe.

[dusty]

First be clear I consider other's opinions worthy of listening to regardless of whether I concur or not. That is how one broadens one's understanding.

Now for the 'contraction'. We do not know if that is the case or not. Hopefully 'not'.

Customer base population? Another area to guess about. For sure the bulk of SS 'followers' are older and falling by attrition. However I am encouraged by the recent ocurances of "I just inherited my .......... Mark x" Also the enthusiasum that comes through at the prospect of using it.

Sadly though the CS issues keep appearing with increasingly troubling details.

I have one personal observation to share regarding SS personnel. No details, but a perception acquired of a somewhat hostile work environment.

Then there are also upbeat observation,s so I think there is reason to hope.

Finally the engineer in me does not always agree that certain upgrades were the best that could be done. But I am not part of the process anyway. I do not know how/why design decisions were made. Monday morning . . .

Thanks JPG. Appreciated. I highly agree with regard to listening to the opinions of others, particularly those you disagree with. However, by nature I am a very direct and honest person. Sometimes this can come off as confrontational in my wording which is not my intent.

With a fair bit of digging I came across some financial numbers online. I don't know how accurate these are, but it does appear a slight contraction is happening to Shopsmith's business, but difficult to tell since there is only 2 years worth of data. It looks like Shopsmith had revenue of $27.4M in 2019 and $27.0M in 2020. IF those were all Mark 7's, that would have been 5.4k sold last year though I suspect it is a mix of PowerPro upgrades, Mark 7's and replacement parts. I was surprised to see that they have 107 employees.

Good points regarding Shopsmith equipment being handed down from one generation to the next which I think is great.

Yeah, CS is definitely a concern. First of all, no company is perfect and every company should be continually trying to improve. I certainly had some difficulty in getting the accessories and replacement items that I wanted. Getting back to the original topic of this thread, that is what I did last year as well. Finally broke down and bought most everything that I had on my wishlist from Shopsmith just in case bankruptcy is on the horizon again, but I hope this doesn't happen. In the end, Shopsmith CS took care of everything for me, but it wasn't easy. The more recent CS comments on the forum do give me concern.

Yup I agree as I too have a Shopsmith shop that will be handed down - to two generations that will probably not use it and it will be sold on CL for half its value (or less). My contribution to future spare parts.

[RFGuy]

Yup I agree as I too have a Shopsmith shop that will be handed down - to two generations that will probably not use it and it will be sold on CL for half its value (or less). My contribution to future spare parts.

Dusty,

Well, I am available for adoption if you want to hand something down to me!

Speaking in jest of of course. Hope you are able to use your Shopsmith equipment for many, many more years.

[dusty]

I'm involved, at this very moment, in validating my shop inventory and annotating it with today's fair market prices (as I see them). The end product will also show my cost when purchased.

Side Note: I'm in the process of updating my home owners insurance.

[chapmanruss]

Okay I'll chime in again. I find the numbers from RF Guy's post interesting.

With a fair bit of digging I came across some financial numbers online. I don't know how accurate these are, but it does appear a slight contraction is happening to Shopsmith's business, but difficult to tell since there is only 2 years worth of data. It looks like Shopsmith had revenue of $27.4M in 2019 and $27.0M in 2020.

I agree it is unfortunate to only see two years but I still find those number encouraging based on everything happening in 2020. Like most companies Shopsmith had to pretty much shut down for a while near the beginning of the Covid epidemic. I remember having to be patient earlier last year waiting for orders. When contacting CS I found out that they were running short staffed for a time due to Covid mandates. These kind of problems have plagued many companies last year. As an example our old freezer quit in October. We tried to find a replacement and none could be found available to buy. We had to order one and it was delivered 12 days ago.

I have hope that Shopsmith will continue and things will improve. It is hard to replace an employee that has been with a company for decades and expect that from the start they will be as productive. Shopsmith has had many of their long term employees retire the last few years so it will take time for new hires to get to the level of knowledge and work as the experienced ones that have now retired.

Finally, I feel, like Dusty that when I'm gone a good part of my Shopsmith collection will be sold. Probably for less than I would sell them for and I believe I am pretty reasonable when it come to prices.

[RFGuy]

Okay I'll chime in again. I find the numbers from RF Guy's post interesting.

With a fair bit of digging I came across some financial numbers online. I don't know how accurate these are, but it does appear a slight contraction is happening to Shopsmith's business, but difficult to tell since there is only 2 years worth of data. It looks like Shopsmith had revenue of $27.4M in 2019 and $27.0M in 2020.

I agree it is unfortunate to only see two years but I still find those number encouraging based on everything happening in 2020. Like most companies Shopsmith had to pretty much shut down for a while near the beginning of the Covid epidemic. I remember having to be patient earlier last year waiting for orders. When contacting CS I found out that they were running short staffed for a time due to Covid mandates. These kind of problems have plagued many companies last year. As an example our old freezer quit in October. We tried to find a replacement and none could be found available to buy. We had to order one and it was delivered 12 days ago.

I have hope that Shopsmith will continue and things will improve. It is hard to replace an employee that has been with a company for decades and expect that from the start they will be as productive. Shopsmith has had many of their long term employees retire the last few years so it will take time for new hires to get to the level of knowledge and work as the experienced ones that have now retired.

Finally, I feel, like Dusty that when I'm gone a good part of my Shopsmith collection will be sold. Probably for less than I would sell them for and I believe I am pretty reasonable when it come to prices.

Thanks Russ. Yeah, I agree. I hope it is encouraging news that they are financially healthy. Still, I believe we should take the numbers with a grain of salt. I don't know if they are accurate and I didn't post a link to where I got the numbers for that very reason, but of course anyone that wants to go do a Google search should find them without too much trouble. They are private so they don't have to report financials to the public, but many larger private companies still report financials (often reduced info is revealed since they are not obligated). IF that site is to be believed then they have 107 employees now which is encouraging, I think, since they only had 91 employees in 2005 down from 130 employees in 2002
(https://www.bizjournals.com/dayton/stor ... tory2.html).

Out of curiosity, I looked up Woodpeckers on the same website and it claims they were $33.6M annual revenue while Lee Valley was $96.1M. Grizzly is $222.1M, but Powermatic wasn't listed.

[DLB]

...I hope it is encouraging news that they are financially healthy. Still, I believe we should take the numbers with a grain of salt...

A relevant note about financial reporting is that it is generally based on a fiscal year, not a calendar year. Did the numbers you found include month and year? Depending on when their fiscal year ends, these numbers may not reflect how the pandemic and response are impacting business. And revenue does not necessarily reflect health anyway. Like the rest of the user community I hope for their financial health and well being. I attended two Lowe's demos early in 2020 and was favorably impressed by the sales rate, I would put it in the range of $8K - $10K for each of the demos I saw. That was mostly, if not entirely, existing owners upgrading equipment. So my impression, perhaps nowhere near reality, is that those demos were a major factor in overall sales. The extent to which online demos can replace that I could not guess. And, of course, negative impacts due to covid are also somewhat offset by positive impacts, changing consumer habits, government loans and grants, etc. (SS got a sizable chunk of my first stimulus check. ) I see their financial health as a murky picture.

- David

[chapmanruss]

A good point about the fiscal years vs. calendar years. Your other comment was interesting too as to the effect of not having the in-store demonstrations. I bought my Power Pro upgrade, Double Tilt upgrade and Lift Assist from Mike Young at two of his demos. Better prices for major purchases at the demos.