Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

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chapmanruss
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by chapmanruss »

This is from one of the Mark 5 manuals on wax.

Use paste floor or furniture wax. Do not use car wax or spray furniture polish. Car wax, although it offers good protection for metal it is extremely hard and has little value as a lubricant. Spray furniture polish isn’t hard enough. Paste floor or furniture wax protects and lubricates. Johnson Paste Wax, Original Formula works well.

Shopsmith has over the years included Johnson Paste Wax or Minwax Paste Finishing Wax in their help kits. The help kit is a collection of items to maintain your Shopsmith. It includes a 5/32" Allen Wrench, Assorted Shims, Assorted Setscrews, Table Insert Setscrews, Paste Wax, Pocket Oiler, Shop Rags and a Mark V Alignment & Maintenance Manual.

At this point I would recommend removing the boat wax you used and start using a recommended paste wax. Mineral spirits should be able to clean off the wax.

We have neglected to mention lubrication for the Speed Control Assembly. When you look inside the inspection hole you can see, attached to the idler pulley assembly, the back of the Speed Control Assembly and specifically the gears. The teeth of the gears will benefit from some dry lubricant like graphite. Oil in this location being open will only attract dust and gum things up.

If you want to know when your Shopsmith Mark 5/V was made check the vent plate on the belt cover around the idler shaft, lower, hole. On it you should find a serial number and which company made your Shopsmith. Mark 5/V's made in 1973 through 1987 by Shopsmith Inc. will have an SS prefix to the serial number. If yours was made before 1973 it will have Manga American Corporation as the manufacturer. Why Mark 5 or V, before 1980 they had Mark 5 on the tool and in early 1980 it was changed to Mark V. Same tool just a change in their marking.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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zamlet
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by zamlet »

OK, thanks, I'll look for that. I take it the boat wax won't actually hurt anything, just perhaps make it more difficult to slide the headstock than it would be if I'd used a proper floor wax. We actually use the same Johnson paste wax (yellow can, red stripe) for cleaning and preserving our firearms, so I usually have some on hand anyway. Now I have yet another use for the stuff! :)

I picked up a bottle of ZoomSpout at a local hardware store, but didn't think to get any sort of dry lube. I'll have to do so.

The one other thing that concerns me is the possibility of rust inside, where I can't easily (if at all) see it. Is there any place in particular that I should inspect closely for rust, and what's a good way to deal with it?
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
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JPG
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by JPG »

External tubes etc. are the main thing. The few steel parts internal typically do not rust.
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chapmanruss
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by chapmanruss »

JPG is right, as long as the tool is cared for rust is not a common problem inside the Headstock.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
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zamlet
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by zamlet »

chapmanruss wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:13 am JPG is right, as long as the tool is cared for rust is not a common problem inside the Headstock.
Except that the tool hasn't been cared for in 25+ years! :o

If any rust were to form inside after being idle for so long, where would it most likely be?
If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing.
DLB
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by DLB »

zamlet wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 6:59 pm If any rust were to form inside after being idle for so long, where would it most likely be?
Most of the Headstock moving parts are ball bearings, which are either sealed or shielded and 'permanently' lubricated so should not rust. If you have problems with those, excessive noise is usually the first indicator. The shafts with movable sheaves are steel and so they are a possibility, but they are more susceptible to a buildup that includes a bit of oil so they don't normally rust. Some rust could form on the quill assembly, which should be cleaned and waxed for best results. I've seen light rust on the worm gear part of the speed control, cleans up well with a brass wire brush. Other than that, you sometimes see surface rust on some sheet metal parts but that is cosmetic. Generally if you did not have heavy external rust you shouldn't find much inside the Headstock. Most of the steel parts have some protection when new: plating, bluing, black oxide, paint, etc.

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Jdwags1
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by Jdwags1 »

Thanks for the info in this thread, I'm awakening my new machine that's been idle for years. These truly look like great machines. I have lots of questions that I'm looking around for as i touch up, a pretty decent machine. Mine looks to be a 1985, and now I want to see what upgrades it needs and then the other ones I want to add to it. Looking forward to years of enjoyment.

Jdwags (Jeff Wagener)
Bothell, WA
Jeff Wagener
Jdwags
Rathdrum, Idaho
Mark VII 2021 with Band Saw
Mark V 1986
Belt Sander, Jointer, Band Saw
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chapmanruss
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Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by chapmanruss »

Hi Jeff,

As you can see there is a lot of help to be found here on the Shopsmith Forum. All you have to do is ask. You said yours looks to be a 1985 Mark V so it would already have the two bearing Quill mentioned earlier in the thread. Is yours a Mark V 500 with the original table system or a Mark V 510 or 505 with the larger table system that has tubes for the fence rails which came out in 1985?

Below is a picture of the Mark V 500.

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Mark V Model 500.jpg
Mark V Model 500.jpg (7.09 KiB) Viewed 1002 times
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In the picture below is a Mark V 510. The Mark V 505 would be the same except it doesn't come with the two floating tables, connecting tubes or adjustable legs. Those could be added making it a Mark V 510 but it would still say 505.

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Mark V Model 510.jpg
Mark V Model 510.jpg (12.65 KiB) Viewed 1002 times
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It is the Table System that makes the difference between the Models of the Mark V.

Do you have an Owner's Manual for your Shopsmith Mark V? If not I recommending getting one and check out the book Power Tool Woodworking for Everyone. It is written about using the Shopsmith tools and expands on what is in the manual.

As for any upgrades I would suggest start using it and see how it works for you. Later look at projects you want to do and then see what upgrades will be of a benefit for that. As an example if you plan on using the Table Saw often to cut larger pieces of wood down to size than maybe the larger Table System of the Mark V 510 or 520 is something to get. Do know that you can cut a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood in half on a Mark V 500.

I would add the same advice when considering additional accessories.
Russ

Mark V completely upgraded to Mark 7
Mark V 520
All SPT's & 2 Power Stations
Model 10ER S/N R64000 first one I restored on bench w/ metal ends & retractable casters.
Has Speed Changer, 4E Jointer, Jig Saw with lamp, a complete set of original accessories & much more.
Model 10E's S/N's 1076 & 1077 oldest ones I have restored. Mark 2 S/N 85959 restored. Others to be restored.
Jdwags1
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Joined: Mon May 31, 2021 12:21 am
Location: Rathdrum, Idaho

Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by Jdwags1 »

Yep its a older MarkV with the old switch. I lubed the sheaves, and made sure things turned. I plugged in in let it run a bit, and then went throught the speed changes slowly.... wen I got up about 3/4 of the way then speed started dropping, i went back down and speed picked back up and then on down to low.
The next day i went out and I'm blowing the breaker on startup, Shucks, thinking its upgrade time, which was in the planning, just not yet.

With all the upgrades to bring it fully up, Thinking I might be better off with a Mark VII, at least I already have a Band Saw, Jointer and Belt Sander. I just hate the idea of replacing the motor, without upgrading, and then would like the double pivot, see that as a usable option.



Jeff
Jeff Wagener
Jdwags
Rathdrum, Idaho
Mark VII 2021 with Band Saw
Mark V 1986
Belt Sander, Jointer, Band Saw
DLB
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Location: Joshua Texas

Re: Maintaining an old, long idle Mark V

Post by DLB »

Jdwags1 wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:21 pm Yep its a older MarkV with the old switch. I lubed the sheaves, and made sure things turned. I plugged in in let it run a bit, and then went throught the speed changes slowly.... wen I got up about 3/4 of the way then speed started dropping, i went back down and speed picked back up and then on down to low.
The next day i went out and I'm blowing the breaker on startup, Shucks, thinking its upgrade time, which was in the planning, just not yet.

With all the upgrades to bring it fully up, Thinking I might be better off with a Mark VII, at least I already have a Band Saw, Jointer and Belt Sander. I just hate the idea of replacing the motor, without upgrading, and then would like the double pivot, see that as a usable option.



Jeff
These are most likely simple problems to solve. While it's possible you need a new motor, it's always a good idea to look into the problem first. IIWM, first I'd take the belt cover off then put a sanding disc on either upper spindle (to use as a handle to spin the system). Turn the system manually and see if it turns easily, paying attention to the condition of the lower belt, in particular. After checking that I'd remove the lower belt to isolate the motor from the rest and test it without load. Two common causes of the motor not starting, which can trip the circuit breaker:
1) Lower belt binding between two of the sheaves, more common with newer users. This can happen with a bad belt or if the speed is adjusted while the system is not turning, either on the motor or manually.
2) Dirt, sawdust, etc. keeping the mechanical start switch inside the motor from engaging the start windings and start capacitor. The conventional headstock is forced-air cooled, so it may pull in sawdust. Most of the air goes through the motor, which tends to get dirty. Tapping the motor case at the opposite end from the sheaves may dislodge dirt from the start switch. You can use compressed air to blow it out, but this is not universally endorsed because it sometimes relocates the dirt into the start switch.

This is just a starting point, but kind of common to the Mark 5/V. Anything that prevents this type of motor from starting can cause it to trip the CB, that does not mean the motor is shot. It is normal that the motor draws a lot of current at startup until the speed comes up. If the speed does not come up in timely fashion, the high current will continue and the CB will trip. The windings are also getting hot when this happens, so give it a chance to cool off between attempts. Don't apply power for more than a few seconds if the motor does not start spinning.

(If the CB trips instantly, that is more likely a short circuit, requiring different troubleshooting. The above assumes some delay between flipping the switch and the CB tripping.)

- David
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