10ER Speed Changer and Belt Tensioning

[Majones1]

I used The 10ER speed changer setup instructions that Skip (MKC Tools) wrote up and was able to get the 10ER operating well on the lower speed changer settings. Even after I got the pulleys aligned, and the speed changer bushings cooled back down, the SC still seemed to make a lot of clacking sounds. I’m guessing this is due to parts being a little loose after all the rust removal mickyd had to do to resurrect this machine.

What I haven’t found in any instructions or on this forum is a discussion of how the belts should function when you move them to use the high speed configuration on the SC. While I had the belts tensioned correctly in the low speed configuration, when I move them to the high speed config, both belts are either extremely loose, or the belt to the motor gets really tight, and the speed indicator is way off, and I can only crank the SC through about half its normal run. Using a laser tachometer I can only get the speed down to 2040 rpm. I was able to get it up to 3400 rpm and sawed an 1-1/2” deep rabbet into a 2x4, but was kind of afraid to take it higher than 4,000 rpm due to the really loose belts.

I have several questions, but the primary question is, should I need to retention the belts after shifting the SC from low speed config (where the belts were correctly tensioned) to the high speed config (where the belts are extremely loose)? Second question, is there any adjustment needed on the belt tension balancer? This is the threaded rod that holds the tension balancer springs.

[chapmanruss]

Marc,

I'll try to give you some help here. Below is a PDF for using the Variable Speed Changer.
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Variable Speed Changer 01-53 2p plus troubleshooting.pdf

(139.93 KiB) Downloaded 564 times

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For clarity I will refer to parts on the Speed Changer as they are listed in the PDF. There are alignment instructions on page 1 you may find helpful. When changing from low to high range or back the belts will always need to be properly tensioned because the motor needs to be raised to change the belt positions. One thing to check on the Speed Changer is lubrication. Under the Care section on page 2 item 1 of the PDF it talks about lubrication of the Pulley Assembly on the shaft. A light weight oil works well for this lubrication instead of cup grease as per the instructions. It is also less of a mess when removing the Pulley Assembly during use (see 1st paragraph on page 1). The floating center of the Pulley Assembly need periodic lubrication too. Under care item 2 talks about that although it is easier to lubricate the floating center by taking the Pulley Assembly apart. Items 4 and 5 under care no longer apply since there is no factory to return the Pulley Assembly to for service. Resetting the pulley is not a difficult task. When properly set one belt should be even with the top of the Pulley Assembly while the other belt should not quite touch the bottom/sleeve. As the belt wears this can be reset.

You asked,

Second question, is there any adjustment needed on the belt tension balancer? This is the threaded rod that holds the tension balancer springs.

I believe you are referring to the Screw Assembly. Two important thing to know about the Screw Assembly is first the lock nut on the end of the assembly should NOT compress the springs. Second when adjusting the speed stop turning the Screw Assembly when the spring starts to compress. At that point you are no longer changing the speed but can break the Speed Changer by cranking it too far.

A tip on asking questions - adding pictures to your posts can help in describing a question.

[Majones1]

Thank you for the explanation and the speed changer document, Russ. I was hoping I wouldn’t have to adjust the belt tension so often, since that motor is so heavy and the set screw behind the speed changer gets hidden by it, especially when in the high speed configuration. Since I’m not getting lucky there, I’m going to have to figure out a consistent method for tensioning the belt and leveling the motor. It’s a just little too close to the bench.

I disassembled the floating pulley the first week I had the 10ER and found it to be bound up. The floating pulley’s sleeve was pretty rough and sticking as it moved so I sanded it a bit, and then reinstalled, oiled, and adjusted it according to the instruction written by Skip of MKC Tools.

Being new to this machine, I am still learning and familiarizing myself with its parts and how they all work together. With this in mind, I know I will likely make incorrect conclusions about the importance of things I don’t yet fully understand. As I previously said, I’ve been thinking there may be too much play in the SC on the ways, and it’s own floating pulley shaft. I think the clacking I’m hearing is caused by this looseness, along with the slight wobble in the spindle pulley. I don’t remember who it was, but someone else on this forum said that they didn’t think the looseness would be a problem. The problem I’m having may just be belt tensioning at this point. I was able to get the low speed configuration tensioned correctly, but I’m having problems getting them tensioned for the fast speed configuration.

Thanks again for your help.

[chapmanruss]

Marc,

I'm not sure why you would have more of a problem tensioning the high speed than the low speed. The belts are the same for high and low speed, a 22" short belt and 25" long belt. They simply get switched from motor to headstock and headstock to motor with the long belt always on the 4" pulley and the short belt on the 2" pulley. You may have noted from the Instruction PDF that the belts were originally 22-1/2" & 25-1/2" but half inch increment belts are difficult to find. If either of the belts are different lengths than this I could see a problem. You also said the motor gets very close to the bench. Looking at the pictures of your 10ER I don't understand why that would be the case unless the belts are longer. Different motors can put the motor shaft farther from the drive shaft and can benefit having a longer belt. Most of the Model 10's I have owned came with the A. O. Smith 1/2 HP motor and a few with the 3/4 HP motor and for those I use a 39" belt w/o the Speed Changer instead of the 38" belt normally used. It still uses the same length belts for the Speed Changer. I have had very few other brand motors.

You said in your last post

I’ve been thinking there may be too much play in the SC on the ways, and it’s own floating pulley shaft.

Is the play you refer to on the floating pulley shaft the pulley assembly having play on the shaft it mounts to? If so the oilite bearings may be worn and need replacing. They are the ones shown below and can be found for sale at

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322384383062?h ... XQUmFSjvCR
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Oilite Bearings.jpg (122.1 KiB) Viewed 2450 times

[Majones1]

This ER10 has a GE 1/2 HP motor so I'm unsure if there is a difference in belt length. I would assume that because of Mike's (mickyd) attention to detail that he researched this and installed the appropriate belts, but I guess this is worth re-checking. In the photo below you can see the distance from the bench. I have been using the 1/2" sanded plywood scrap to help level the motor, and I included it in this photo for reference.

Img_1 - Motor Label.jpg (101.32 KiB) Viewed 2442 times

GE Motor Height.jpg (293.1 KiB) Viewed 2442 times

When I get the belts tensioned correctly for the low speed mode the speed range is correct and the speed indicator plate is fairly correct, but when I tension the belts for the high speed mode I can only get the speed down to 2,000 RPM and only goes up to ~4,000 before one of the springs begins to get too tight; and the speed indicator is way off. You can see in the photo below where the speed indicator sits when the spindle is running at 2,040 RPM, which is the lowest I could get it to go.

Speed Indicator.jpg (314.04 KiB) Viewed 2442 times

As for the oilite bearings, I don't think there is much play between the shaft and the bearing. What I am hearing is the horizontal play as the bearing slides back and forth between the speed change chassis and the knurled nut holding the pully on the shaft. You can see the gap between the bearing and the nut in the photo below. The reason it is moving back and forth, clacking up a storm, is because the headstock pully is bent a little bit and wobbles back and forth.

Oillite Bearing Spacing.jpg (262.21 KiB) Viewed 2442 times

[jsburger]

This ER10 has a GE 1/2 HP motor so I'm unsure if there is a difference in belt length. I would assume that because of Mike's (mickyd) attention to detail that he researched this and installed the appropriate belts, but I guess this is worth re-checking. In the photo below you can see the distance from the bench. I have been using the 1/2" sanded plywood scrap to help level the motor, and I included it in this photo for reference.

Img_1 - Motor Label.jpg
GE Motor Height.jpg

When I get the belts tensioned correctly for the low speed mode the speed range is correct and the speed indicator plate is fairly correct, but when I tension the belts for the high speed mode I can only get the speed down to 2,000 RPM and only goes up to ~4,000 before one of the springs begins to get too tight; and the speed indicator is way off. You can see in the photo below where the speed indicator sits when the spindle is running at 2,040 RPM, which is the lowest I could get it to go.

Speed Indicator.jpg

As for the oilite bearings, I don't think there is much play between the shaft and the bearing. What I am hearing is the horizontal play as the bearing slides back and forth between the speed change chassis and the knurled nut holding the pully on the shaft. You can see the gap between the bearing and the nut in the photo below. The reason it is moving back and forth, clacking up a storm, is because the headstock pully is bent a little bit and wobbles back and forth.

Oillite Bearing Spacing.jpg

I would have to go out and look at my speed changers for the gap, but if the the flanges on the oilite bushings are worn down then there may be an excessive gap/play. However, if you have a wobble in head stock pulley that is the problem IMO. I don't know what that gap is with new bushings. I replaced the bushings in my speed changer and I don't think it is as much as you have, but there still has to be a gap so the sheaves can turn. The flanges on yours look thinner than the ones on the new bushings in Russ' photo above. Might just be the photo angle though.

I would think without the head stock pulley wobble the speed changer sheaves would not be moving back and fourth no matter the gap.

I would say the first thing to do is replace the head stock pulley. That is not an easy task since the pulley bore is 13/16". That is not a standard and they are not available anywhere I know of. They do show up on eBay from time to time and Skip Campbell (MKCtools.com) does make and sell them.

[Majones1]

I’ll definitely check into that pulley. When I manually rotate it while looking at it from the front of the SS, I can see both outside sheaves moving from side to side approximately 1/16” to 3/32”. Here’s one of the benefits of talking about these issues with someone else, as I was writing this reply, I just realized that I should probably take the pulley off and verify that it’s not just a problem with its seating on the shaft.

Another thing I’m trying to figure out is the belts. It was earlier mentioned that the standard belt lengths were 22.5” and 25.5”, but because half-sizes are no longer available, it is recommended to go up or down equally on both belts, thus either use 22/25 or 23/26 inch belts. I checked mine and My short belt is a Dayco 4L240 and the long one is a Dayco 17250. This means mine are 24” and 25”, with the short belt a whole 2” longer than the original sizes previously noted. But the unknown variable here is how much difference is there between the AO Smith motors used with the recommended belt sizes and the GE motor that I have. I would guess that there’s not that much difference. Also, I think it was Skip’s setup instructions that recommended we use 4L belts, and my 25” belt does not include the 4L in the part number. I don’t know what that means, but I suspect it doesn’t have anything to do with my difficulty in adjusting the speed; I’m just noting the difference.

I cannot find any place that talks about the belt lengths for GE motors, or how to determine the belt lengths for your specific motor. Actually, I take that back. I did see somewhere that told how to measure distances between spindle centers, and use pulley radii to determine belt length. I guess the thing one would need to figure out is where to set the motor. I guess that just locking it into the center of its adjustment range would be best. But then, where do you place the speed changer pulley? Would you adjust it to the center of it’s up/down movement?

[JPG]

Since the motor assembly is included in the 'setup', the difference in motor dimension from base to shaft becomes accounted for. The 4L indicates a 1/2" belt with a beefy cross section. You do need to keep the length difference between the two belts at 3". That will minimize the variation between low and high range motor positioning.

[chapmanruss]

Hi Marc,

I had a GE motor on a restored Model 10 and if I remember correctly it used the same length belt as ones with the A. O. Smith motor. Meaning the distance from the motor shaft to the drive shaft was at or was nearly the same as the A. O. Smith motor. JPG gave you what is needed and this is the why it is needed. Belt width as indicated by the 4L in the belt's part number is important since you need the correct width belt to have it ride in the correct position on the pulleys. A 4L belt is a 1/2" wide "V" belt. Although your longer belt has a different part number it looks like it is a 1/2" wide belt but the part number difference may be because it has the "tank tread" type back. Having a longer than normal short belt is one reason you are having to lower the motor so close to the bench. That belt being 2" longer causes the motor, which is the only adjustment point, to be 1" closer to the bench. It will also effect the position the pulley assembly needs to go up and down when turning the screw assembly for the different speeds and the indicator will not be correct for both high and low ranges without being reset each time you change ranges. I hope that is understandable. My best recommendation is to have a set of 4L220 and 4L250 belts or equivalent. That is 1/2" wide "V" belts that are 22" and 25" long. That keeps the belt ratios correct for the designed distances between the motor pulley to the Speed Changer pulley to the headstock pulley.

[Majones1]

Thank you guys for helping me figure out this problem. I was already planning to head to my local autoparts store at lunchtime to pickup a 4L220 belt and this confirms that it should help with the speed adjustment problem (and make adjusting the motor a little easier). The short belt that is too long does explain why the high-speed range is so much of a problem; that is when the short belt is placed on the speed changer and the headstock pulley. I'll let you know my results.

Thanks again!