Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

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jsburger
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by jsburger »

JPG wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:38 pm I find it 'amusing' that those adjustable legs cannot support great loads yet they are sold by SS as a table support for mortising.
:D Just have to say I have never had a problem with them. They work just fine.
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JPG
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by JPG »

I think the amount of torque applied when 'adjusting' the length has a lot to do with the threshold of slipping under load.

They WILL slip. Nylon gripping smooth aluminum tube. Then there is the presence of JPW!
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BuckeyeDennis
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

JPG wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:22 pm I think the amount of torque applied when 'adjusting' the length has a lot to do with the threshold of slipping under load.

They WILL slip. Nylon gripping smooth aluminum tube. Then there is the presence of JPW!
I agree — the load at which they slip should be pretty much proportional to the tightening torque.

Mine have always held well enough for me. Properly tightened, I think I could probably sit on one without it slipping.

But then, mine have never come into contact with JPW. That would be a game changer! And very difficult to clean out …
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

So for those who have NEVER had a problem with their telescoping legs here, what size material do you commonly work with? Is it only 3/4" thick lumber? What is the heaviest material you have ever put on the extension tables with telescoping legs? I have had a large 6/4 panel (approximately 100 lbs) on top of mine and it didn't maintain level & alignment after putting the panel on top of it forcing me to have to re-adjust. Then after re-adjusting, I operated my Mark V in drill press mode so there was the 100 lbs of static force and the additional dynamic force of the drill press pushing down which caused the legs to move again causing additional adjustments to be needed. All legs were tightened fully by hand and I have NEVER put JPW on the telescoping legs. I would never put JPW on telescoping legs. The extension tables and telescoping legs are a pain to setup, but they do work for lightweight loads. I haven't had a problem with them for light loads. I specifically highlighted how I had issues with them for heavy loads. Short of getting a wrench out to tighten the legs, I don't know what else to do. I find them to be more trouble than they are worth. Is it possible there is manufacturing variation on these and the batch I received have weaker holding force than the ones you guys are raving about? :confused:
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BuckeyeDennis
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by BuckeyeDennis »

Here's a semi-quantitative measurement. I just tried putting my entire weight (about 230 lb.) on a single hand-tightened leg, and it slipped. Then I tried it with two legs in parallel. They still slipped, but not until I had almost my entire weight on them. So I'd estimate the slipping threshould of my telescoping legs at about 100 lb. per leg.

I don't recall ever using my telescoping legs for heavy static loads such as you describe. But I use them routinely for a pressing operation, in which I repeatedly apply 50-100 lb of downforce to the quill lever. The quill-feed mechanism will amplify that force greatly. But with the legs outboard of the table, they have something like a 2.5:1 mechanical advantage over the quill, and of course there are two of them. I've never had them slip during those pressing operations. But running the numbers, I may be getting pretty close.
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

BuckeyeDennis wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:29 pm Here's a semi-quantitative measurement. I just tried putting my entire weight (about 230 lb.) on a single hand-tightened leg, and it slipped. Then I tried it with two legs in parallel. They still slipped, but not until I had almost my entire weight on them. So I'd estimate the slipping threshould of my telescoping legs at about 100 lb. per leg.

I don't recall ever using my telescoping legs for heavy static loads such as you describe. But I use them routinely for a pressing operation, in which I repeatedly apply 50-100 lb of downforce to the quill lever. The quill-feed mechanism will amplify that force greatly. But with the legs outboard of the table, they have something like a 2.5:1 mechanical advantage over the quill, and of course there are two of them. I've never had them slip during those pressing operations. But running the numbers, I may be getting pretty close.
Thanks Dennis. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this experiment as well as your thoughts on the issue. I am not trying to dis Shopsmith and I certainly accept that I may be doing something wrong which is why I asked the questions above. I don't think this is user error, but I also know that I can't assume that is the case so if anyone has feedback for what I can do different then I am all ears. That example that I gave with the large 6/4 panel is the largest table system that I ever tried to use with my Mark V. I think I used all 4 of my extension tables with 4 telescoping legs when I tried it. Perhaps if I was just doing a plywood rip with all of the extension tables it would have been fine, but keep in mind I was supporting a large heavy panel AND drilling into it. So, the loads had to be higher for this operation. Perhaps if I was just ripping plywood it would never move, but it definitely couldn't take 100+ lbs in a drilling operation in my shop. I still think there could be a better, more rigid, table support system than those telescoping legs. I would try to rig something up, but I really don't need it that much now that I switched to cutting all plywood with a tracksaw. Also, I have the Woodpeckers Auto-Line Drill Guide ™ now which works fantastically, so I won't be attempting the drilling operation again with extension tables any time soon.

Ed is talking about making a 510 into an impromptu workbench using extension tables and telescoping legs. I was just trying to urge caution to him if he needs to put significant weight on top of it. It might not hold and I would hate for it to come crashing down for him.
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reible
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by reible »

I have used my legs with 4' x 8' x 3/4 MDF. I think that must be in the what 90 pound area? Keep in mind that in those cuts the weight is distributed across the main table and a fixed extension table with the other extension table being the only one with the legs. This would be a "cross cut" configuration. This was early on and I soon added a second ie left and right fixed extension table. Both of my 520's are set up this way and I never used a floating table in this configuration anymore.

So:

The more severe load would be in the rip configuration where a front/rear table or more could be carrying the full load before and after the cut. Here again there are other ways to do this but if you do use the table and tubes and legs this way then spreading the load between connections to the main or fixed extension tables and the floating tables can be a matter of how things are done and how many extra tables and or tubes or legs you have.

Again I have never noticed any issues in either configuration. If you are talking like an 1/8" or so then I would say that is well within the tolerance, if it is inches then there is a problem.

Further more the actual deflection of the whole setup comes into play so unless you are monitoring the whole thing it pretty hard to identify where changes are happening and what is to blame.

For applications where you are in drill press mode you end up with having to deal with the main table slipping on the way tubes. I have had that happen and ended up adding some stop collars, one below the carriage to stop that and a second above the table to keep it from tipping. This issues is worse on the 500's then the 520's but still it doesn't hurt to have the ability to lock things in with the use of collars.

As a side note, well not actually a side note but you know what I mean. Mortising on the 500 was an early issue I faced and found the issue to be the table tipping forward. At that time shopsmith didn't offer a solution so I got a 2 x 4 and cut a notch that the table edge would slide in. I used that for years or that or heavy drilling operations. That is a clean cheap solution and while it is not adjustable for height you can lean to live with that.

Ed
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reible
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by reible »

Did some testing. This is my test subject which I called pogo:
pogo.jpg
pogo.jpg (295.93 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
The other part is not shown but it is a bathroom scale, digital in my case. This is something others can try at home. Just make sure you are on a solid floor, not carpet. By putting the end of pogo on the scale and adding your weight to the cross bar you simply watch/feel for slip and stop at that point. Do several test and see what you see.

I saw 82.x to as high as 87.x but most reading were about 85.x pounds. This seems pretty reasonable but it would be nice to see what other find.

Ed
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

reible wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:17 pm I saw 82.x to as high as 87.x but most reading were about 85.x pounds. This seems pretty reasonable but it would be nice to see what other find.
Thanks Ed. Appreciate your insights and experiment. Just so I am clear, are you saying that at around 85.x lbs is where these legs started to slip? Is that correct? I don't know what number this should be (for a good design), but 80-100 lbs kind of seems reasonable to me given the design of the telescoping leg. IF one wants to put more weight onto extension tables, perhaps we just need to double the number of legs used...just a thought.
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reible
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by reible »

Yes the 85 point seems to be where things start going south. Now that is missing is would this be common or just with the two I tested?? I do have two more but difficult to get to right now.

The idea of distribution of the weight to more legs and or more fixed tables is what I was getting at in an earlier post. They need not necessarily be next to each other to do that.

Ed
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