Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

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dusty
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by dusty »

RFGuy wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:42 pm
BuckeyeDennis wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:29 pm Here's a semi-quantitative measurement. I just tried putting my entire weight (about 230 lb.) on a single hand-tightened leg, and it slipped. Then I tried it with two legs in parallel. They still slipped, but not until I had almost my entire weight on them. So I'd estimate the slipping threshould of my telescoping legs at about 100 lb. per leg.

I don't recall ever using my telescoping legs for heavy static loads such as you describe. But I use them routinely for a pressing operation, in which I repeatedly apply 50-100 lb of downforce to the quill lever. The quill-feed mechanism will amplify that force greatly. But with the legs outboard of the table, they have something like a 2.5:1 mechanical advantage over the quill, and of course there are two of them. I've never had them slip during those pressing operations. But running the numbers, I may be getting pretty close.
Thanks Dennis. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this experiment as well as your thoughts on the issue. I am not trying to dis Shopsmith and I certainly accept that I may be doing something wrong which is why I asked the questions above. I don't think this is user error, but I also know that I can't assume that is the case so if anyone has feedback for what I can do different then I am all ears. That example that I gave with the large 6/4 panel is the largest table system that I ever tried to use with my Mark V. I think I used all 4 of my extension tables with 4 telescoping legs when I tried it. Perhaps if I was just doing a plywood rip with all of the extension tables it would have been fine, but keep in mind I was supporting a large heavy panel AND drilling into it. So, the loads had to be higher for this operation. Perhaps if I was just ripping plywood it would never move, but it definitely couldn't take 100+ lbs in a drilling operation in my shop. I still think there could be a better, more rigid, table support system than those telescoping legs. I would try to rig something up, but I really don't need it that much now that I switched to cutting all plywood with a tracksaw. Also, I have the Woodpeckers Auto-Line Drill Guide ™ now which works fantastically, so I won't be attempting the drilling operation again with extension tables any time soon.

Ed is talking about making a 510 into an impromptu workbench using extension tables and telescoping legs. I was just trying to urge caution to him if he needs to put significant weight on top of it. It might not hold and I would hate for it to come crashing down for him.
I'd sure like to see a picture of the setup for a "drilling operation" that was adversely effected by insecure telescopic table legs supporting an
extension table.
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dusty
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by dusty »

dusty wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:28 am
RFGuy wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:42 pm
BuckeyeDennis wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:29 pm Here's a semi-quantitative measurement. I just tried putting my entire weight (about 230 lb.) on a single hand-tightened leg, and it slipped. Then I tried it with two legs in parallel. They still slipped, but not until I had almost my entire weight on them. So I'd estimate the slipping threshould of my telescoping legs at about 100 lb. per leg.

I don't recall ever using my telescoping legs for heavy static loads such as you describe. But I use them routinely for a pressing operation, in which I repeatedly apply 50-100 lb of downforce to the quill lever. The quill-feed mechanism will amplify that force greatly. But with the legs outboard of the table, they have something like a 2.5:1 mechanical advantage over the quill, and of course there are two of them. I've never had them slip during those pressing operations. But running the numbers, I may be getting pretty close.
Thanks Dennis. Really appreciate you taking the time to do this experiment as well as your thoughts on the issue. I am not trying to dis Shopsmith and I certainly accept that I may be doing something wrong which is why I asked the questions above. I don't think this is user error, but I also know that I can't assume that is the case so if anyone has feedback for what I can do different then I am all ears. That example that I gave with the large 6/4 panel is the largest table system that I ever tried to use with my Mark V. I think I used all 4 of my extension tables with 4 telescoping legs when I tried it. Perhaps if I was just doing a plywood rip with all of the extension tables it would have been fine, but keep in mind I was supporting a large heavy panel AND drilling into it. So, the loads had to be higher for this operation. Perhaps if I was just ripping plywood it would never move, but it definitely couldn't take 100+ lbs in a drilling operation in my shop. I still think there could be a better, more rigid, table support system than those telescoping legs. I would try to rig something up, but I really don't need it that much now that I switched to cutting all plywood with a tracksaw. Also, I have the Woodpeckers Auto-Line Drill Guide ™ now which works fantastically, so I won't be attempting the drilling operation again with extension tables any time soon.

Ed is talking about making a 510 into an impromptu workbench using extension tables and telescoping legs. I was just trying to urge caution to him if he needs to put significant weight on top of it. It might not hold and I would hate for it to come crashing down for him.
I'd sure like to see a picture of the setup for a "drilling operation" that was adversely effected by insecure telescopic table legs supporting an
extension table.
"Making Sawdust Safely"
Dusty
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RFGuy
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

dusty wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:28 am I'd sure like to see a picture of the setup for a "drilling operation" that was adversely effected by insecure telescopic table legs supporting an
extension table.
Dusty,

Not something I am willing to setup again because it is too time consuming. The setup that I described won't fit in my tiny shop. I had to move a lot of things to be able to wheel my Mark V into my main garage to set all this up originally. It didn't work well and now we know why. The telescoping legs do NOT have much holding power. IF you don't believe me, just try the test that Ed suggested here: viewtopic.php?p=289588#p289588. My telescoping legs start slipping in the 40-60lbs range which is too weak in my opinion.
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by JPG »

I think Dusty's point is that an EXTENSION table is supported by the SPT mount clamp.

Outboard tables supported by telescoping legs are usually floating tables(although an extension table with legs COULD be used).
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

JPG wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:55 am I think Dusty's point is that an EXTENSION table is supported by the SPT mount clamp.

Outboard tables supported by telescoping legs are usually floating tables(although an extension table with legs COULD be used).
Thanks JPG. Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean by "SPT mount clamp". You mean the ones that holds the SPT vertical in the base? What does that have to do with an extension table? I have never mounted an extension table off of anything except the table rails using connector tubes. What is the difference between an extension table supported off of the main table versus off the aux table? I was in drillpress mode, so aux table couldn't be mounted, but you can mount as many extension tables as you want off of the main table using both the infeed & outfeed sides of it.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by JPG »

OK a lot of misused terminology going on here(by me as well).

Fer the record:
A extension table is an addon used with Mark 5/V 500 machines to extend the front edge of the main table and provides an extension of the miter gauge slot.

An auxiliary table is mounted in either SPT mount to provide support with a wider base. The aux table has mounting tubes.

A floating table is essentially an aux table sans mounting tubes.

I also erred re this point of Dusty's post.

Not to be confused with "mounting tubes", the 27/24/60 inch tubes are used with the 510/520 rails/extendable legs to support the floating tables. A proper name for them other than 'tubes' escapes me.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10
E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by RFGuy »

JPG,

Thanks. Okay, sorry that I started the confusion. :o I have always heard these called extension tables, but I guess they are technically a floating table. I have always had a 510 or above, so I didn't know "extension table" was really only the miter gauge extension table for the 500. So, I don't have ANY extension tables then. Didn't mean to mislead anyone. I hope this clears things up. Just to reiterate, I was in drill press mode and had several floating tables attached to the main table using connector tubes.
Last edited by RFGuy on Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
📶RF Guy

Mark V 520 (Bought New '98) | 4" jointer | 6" beltsander | 12" planer | bandsaw | router table | speed reducer | univ. tool rest
Porter Cable 12" Compound Miter Saw | Rikon 8" Low Speed Bench Grinder w/CBN wheels | Jessem Clear-Cut TS™ Stock Guides
Festool (Emerald): DF 500 Q | RO 150 FEQ | OF 1400 EQ | TS 55 REQ | CT 26 E
DC3300 | Shopvac w/ClearVue CV06 Mini Cyclone | JDS AirTech 2000 | Sundstrom PAPR | Dylos DC1100 Pro particulate monitor
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dusty
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by dusty »

RFGuy wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:26 am JPG,

Thanks. Okay, sorry that I started the confusion. I have always heard these called extension tables, but I guess they are technically a floating table. I have always had a 510 or above, so I didn't know "extension table" was really only the miter gauge extension table for the 500. So, I don't have ANY extension tables then. Didn't mean to mislead anyone. I hope this clears things up. Just to reiterate, I was in drill press mode and had several floating tables attached to the main table using connector tubes.
I can't imagine having extension tables or floating table mounted off to the side of the Main Table in drill press mode being adfversely effected by the downward pressure of the quill. I do understand the Main Table being flexed under that pressure.

My solution: https://www.woosterbrush.com/other-tool ... lock-pole/
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by DLB »

JPG wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:23 am OK a lot of misused terminology going on here(by me as well).

Fer the record:
A extension table is an addon used with Mark 5/V 500 machines to extend the front edge of the main table and provides an extension of the miter gauge slot.

An auxiliary table is mounted in either SPT mount to provide support with a wider base. The aux table has mounting tubes.

A floating table is essentially an aux table sans mounting tubes.

I also erred re this point of Dusty's post.

Not to be confused with "mounting tubes", the 27/24/60 inch tubes are used with the 510/520 rails/extendable legs to support the floating tables. A proper name for them other than 'tubes' escapes me.
I don't think the definitions are that clear because they are not used consistently by the MS. In my 520 manual, the table that has a base to mount in a SPT mount is an Extension Table. In SS 113, Nick calls the same thing an Aux Table, as it has been called in the past on earlier versions. The little height adjusting table that goes with the sliding crosscut table is an Auxiliary Table. The Extension Table Brackets describes the tables they work with as 'floating extension tables.' I think we're allowed to be confused. ;)

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dusty
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Re: Looking for Ideas for Storing Shopsmith Tables?

Post by dusty »

Connector Tubes aka: "table rail tubes"
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