Mk VII inventory, investigation, and tests

[docmirror]

Well, things are not going swimmingly with the soon to be drill press. Kinda long, the cliff notes are - I have no drill chuck, and need one. Will a MK V chuck fit a MK VII? I searched for info and no luck. Most of the docs say 'consult the forum for more info'.

The unit has spent some quality time outside in the elements in the past. So - the ways have some surface corrosion on them, and guess what - you already know, the headstock is head-stuck. The tail stock was all the way right, and the headstock was pretty close to all the way right with the quill in, and the blade in the table saw slot. Exactly where I don't need it. As this is a Mk VII and not a V, or 5, or ER, or other, there is no gear rack on the ways to move the headstock easily.

I've been reading up on the MK VII here, and the rebuild process from the guy who took it all apart, and renovated. Good info. I powered it up and ran it forward a backward, it sounds good, and the speed control is working well, so I think a little lube, and little cleaning and I'll be on my way. However, I needed the headstock over to the left more, and the little friction spinner that is supposed to move the headstock doesn't move diddly squat. It turns, the gears mesh, the cross shaft spins merrily, but the headstock was just locked tight.

I lubed the ways with some WD-40(YES, I KNOW IT IS NOT A LUBRICANT, THANKYOUVERYMUCH), and then got a ratchet strap around the end of the frame and hooked on to the headstock. I loaded the ratchet a bit, and jiggled around, and the headstock did move a bit. The adjustment winder is absolutely useless. it just goes around, and squeeks a bit and does nothing for the headstock. I figured some gravity would help so I tilted the carriage up on the right about 30 deg and propped it with a board. A bit more lubrication and a little more ratcheting and the headstock was over on the left. Yes, the clamp was loose.

So, I now have a headstock where I need it, and the tailstock where I need it, and the table where I need it, but here's a can-o-worms, I have NO drill chuck. har, har, har. I've got every widget in the realm of Shopsmith except a drill chuck and key. Sigh. A chuck! A chuck! My kingdom for a chuck! Ok, I'm no Richard III, but I still want one. On to inventory.

Here's where things get interesting. I have two rather large heavy boxes of 'stuff' and I start taking things out. Implements of wood destruction I can't really identify, but with the help of my documentation, I've figured most of it out. Starting on the far left, I have a jig saw, with the really wide loop arm, then there's a joiner with all the fences, and guides, and safeties. There's a combo disk, belt sander attachment. Table extensions, dado blades, rip blades, crosscut blades, lathe cutting tools, collets, etc. I even have a compressor, hose and spray gun. There's an evil snake looking thing about 5' long that allows implements of injury to be held in the (remaining) hand. But - no - drill chuck.

On to the questions. Does anyone know if a MK V drill chuck will marry up to the shaft or collet or a MK VII? I see some chucks for sale on ebay, not to bad a price, but need to know if it's going to fit my machine or do I need something special. Next, does anyone who has a drill chuck they want to sell/trade need anything like a jig saw, joiner, or the snake hand drive thing? I'm going to keep the sander and compressor.

[roy_okc]

docmirror,

I'm not a Mark VII expert by any means, but believe it has the same output shaft size as the V/5/7. Measure your shaft and see if it isn't 5/8" (0.625"), which is the size of the "mainstream" machines.

[DLB]

Double-check both the head and tail of the snake. That sounds like a flexible extension and it is just possible that it was left in the chuck. Also not a Mark VII user, but IIRC I read in a recent post that the quill is the same as a Mark 5/V quill. Therefore, M5/V chuck will fit it. Assuming that's correct, there are several choices between Shopsmith and ebay for keyless or keyed over a range of sizes.

- David

[docmirror]

The drill chuck is not in the end of the snake. I forgot the quill shaft is the same size/type as the Mk V, so the chuck for a V should fit a VII.

BTW, there's a Mk VII on CL for sale cheap. I might just buy another one nearby and maybe he has a chuck. I'll have a spare machine for parts.

[chapmanruss]

docmirror,

As Roy and David have already said the Mark VII made in the 1960's has the same size 5/8" spindle as all Mark series and Model 10 tools. It's one of the nice things about the Shopsmith and that they can use the same spindle size attachments although more recent Marks use different (longer) arbors because of the Lower Saw Blade Guard design. That being said any of the Drill Chucks made for the Shopsmith tool from 1947 until now will fit. Most of the Drill Chucks sold by the makers of the Shopsmith tools over the years have been 1/2" capacity and keyed. Shopsmith sells the current version of their 1/2" Drill Chuck (P/N 505633 ver. 7) and has added a Keyless 5/8" capacity Drill Chuck for sale too. The picture below is the various 1/2" capacity Drill Chuck from over the years. On the top row versions 5, 6 & 7 vary only in the Shopsmith Logo and versions 2 & 3 vary in the labeling.

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Drill Chucks - labeled.jpg (145.96 KiB) Viewed 1129 times

.
The item you described as

There's an evil snake looking thing about 5' long that allows implements of injury to be held in the (remaining) hand.

is a Flexible Shaft and was a popular item before safety cautions and liability forced it out of existence. The one made for the Shopsmith tools, first the Model 10's and followed by the Mark series tools, has an attachment with a 5/8" bore and a spindle end again 5/8" diameter. Other Flexible Shafts of the era had a 1/2" bore and a threaded shaft end.

I am wondering, did you intend to include pictures with your post? If you need help identifying items do add pictures to your posts and we will be glad to help.

[JPG]

Note the change in set screw socket size between Ver 1 and Ver 2. 3/8 to 5/32

Version 2 still has the 3/8 set screw whereas Ver 3 changes it to 5/16.(caused by screw standardization).

A lot of 'unique' older screws were made before the standardization. SS had to change them so as to continue compatibility with the SS tool kit (5/32 hex wrench).

[chapmanruss]

JPG,

If you are referring to Drill Chucks P/N 206100 version 1, 2 & 3 they each have different set screws which is what changed on them. Version 1 is from the Model 10's with a 3/8" set screw using a 3/16" Allen wrench. Version 2 is the first Mark 5 Drill Chuck with a special 3/8" set screw using a 5/32" Allen wrench. Version 3 has a 5/16" set screw using a 5/32" Allen wrench as do all the following Drill Chucks through the current one shown above. As you know all possible set screws used for the Shopsmith Mark series tools were changed to use a 5/32" Allen wrench with the introduction of the Mark 5 in 1954.

As you said

compatibility with the SS tool kit (5/32 hex wrench).

Thanks for pointing that out so others can understand the differences of those Drill Chucks that look the same.

Information I have recently found about the Drill Chucks may change which Chuck was actually in use when the part number changed from 206100 to 505633 in 1964. It may have been the Jacobs Multi-Craft Chuck and not the Jacobs 3326. That would change the version numbers of all the Chucks that followed. I have also found a 3rd version of the Jacobs Multi-Craft Chuck but am not sure it was ever supplied with Shopsmith tools. More research is needed on the Drill Chucks.

[JPG]

Other things to mention is all but ver 4 in the bottom row are Jacobs. Ver 4 is a cushman.

Only the first two (ver 2,3) are Jacobs in the top row. The others are I presume of foreign origin.

The Jacobs in the lower row are Jacobs 3326' except 102-50 (has a jacobs taper with a 5/8" adapter). N OPE, threaded chuck body. 1/2-20???

The Jacobs in the top row are "Mastercraft" series.

Again thy effort of collecting, photographing and labeling is outstanding!!!

[docmirror]

Okay, first things first. This user forum is OUTSTANDING. Most of the user forums I visit are marginal with some being completely useless or without any expertise from SME. Kudos to the DIY crowd here that comes through in value. No, not sarcasm - honest op/ed here, props to the SS forums folks for helping out.

Russ, I didn't take any pics while I was at the hangar yesterday as I was low on batt on my phone and I had to get a landing gear sensor fixed toots-sweet or no plane trip on Sat. With that said, I will endeavor to use more graphics in the future.

Hey, I thought of a use for the wood working side of things. I need some wood spindles made for my covered paint roller, after my handyman lost one of the end spindles. The SS would be the ideal tool to make a couple new spindles using the lathe task which would be done on the metal lathe using Alum but the wood might be suitable material as well and far cheaper than metal. Maybe I'll setup for a wood project after all.

Off to buy a chuck, and maybe that spare Mk VII on CL later today. In closing - 'how much wood would a wood chuck chuck....
(it had to be done)

[chapmanruss]

I know my last couple of posts have really focused on just Drill Chucks so I apologize for that, but it can be helpful to those who wish to get parts that originally came with their Shopsmith when they are restored. The following text is information I have gathered over the years about the Drill Chucks.


I have found 11 different Drill Chuck Assemblies. The part numbers listed below are for the complete Drill Chuck Assembly. Other part numbers can be found for drill chucks but those are for individual parts (the Drill Chuck minus the setscrew and key). Many of the different Drill Chuck Assemblies share the same part number. 6 or 7 different Drill Chuck Assemblies have part number 505633. Two part number changes occurred only because Magna Engineering changed their part numbering system November 1951 and Magna American changed their part numbering system in early 1964. So, there are single Drill Chuck Assemblies with more than one part number.

The first Drill Chuck Assembly was the Jacobs 33B (a threaded Chuck) with an adapter to fit on the 5/8” spindle of the Shopsmith 10E in 1947. This was soon replaced by the Jacobs 3326 Chuck made to go directly on the Shopsmith's spindle. It is listed in an early Montgomery Ward 10E Owner’s Manual although the 33B and adapter is shown in the parts drawings. There are 3 versions of the Jacobs 3326 Drill Chuck Assembly that had 4 or 5 different part numbers. The difference between these three Drill Chuck Assemblies has to do with the set screws. First it was a 3/8” set screw using a 3/16” Allen Wrench. That was followed in 1954 with a special 3/8” set screw that used a 5/32” Allen Wrench. Later the Jacobs 3326 was made for a standard 5/16” set screw using a 5/32” Allen Wrench. The Jacobs Multi-Craft Chucks and the Cushman Chuck were supplied mostly in the 1960’s to the 1980’s. Two Jacobs Multi-Craft Chucks only differ in how they are labeled and there is a third Multi-Craft Chuck but different in the shape of the nose. I do not know if this version of the Jacobs Multi-Craft Chuck was ever supplied with Shopsmith tools therefor in the list below it is shown without a part number. The Multi-Craft Chuck was first used in the 1960’s and maybe before or after the 1964 part number change *3. If the Multi-Craft Chuck was used prior to the 1964 part number change than the earlier Jacobs 3326 Chuck would not have had the part number 505633.

The current chuck style first had an engraved SS logo followed by an etched SS logo outline then the current etched filled in SS logo. I have one Chuck of this style that has no markings but the etched logo may have worn off through use. I do not know who makes this Chuck for Shopsmith. The last Shopsmith Drill Chuck is the only one that is not a ½’ capacity Drill Chuck but is 5/8” and Keyless.

Part # - Description - Year (when available)
102-50 - Jacobs No. 33B 102-33, Chuck Arbor 102-47X, Chuck Key 102-33K - 1947
102-50X - Jacobs No. 3326, 3/8” set screw w/ 3/16" hex - 1948
107 100 - Jacobs No. 3326, 3/8” set screw w/ 3/16" hex - 1951
206100 - Jacobs No. 3326, Special 3/8" set screw w/ 5/32" hex - 1954
206100 - Jacobs No. 3326, 5/16” set screw w/ 5/32" hex
27100 - Jacobs No. 3326, 5/16” set screw w/ 5/32" hex *1
505633 - Jacobs No. 3326, 5/16” set screw w/ 5/32" hex *2 - (if still used after 1963)
27100/505633 - Indented Label Strip - :: Jacobs :::: Multi-Craft Chuck :: MC8K26 *3 - 1964?
505633 - Indented Label Strip - Jacobs Multi-Craft Chuck - (with MC8K26 on nose)
Indented Label Strip - Jacobs Multi-Craft Chuck - (with MC8K26 on nose) different shaped
505633 - Indented Knurled strip - Cushman Chuck
505633 - Similar to Jacobs 3326 - longer nose - engraved SS logo
505633 - Similar to Jacobs 3326 - longer nose - etched SS logo Outline
505633 - Similar to Jacobs 3326 - longer nose - etched SS logo Filled - Current
556273 - 5/8” Keyless Drill Chuck - 2017/Current

NOTES:
All Chucks are up to ½” drill bit capacity except 556273. All 505633 Chucks have a 5/16” set screw using a 5/32” Allen Wrench. The current Chuck looks like an original Jacobs 3326 style with a longer nose.
*1 This Chuck shown in the November 1962 Catalog
*2 This Chuck shown in the February 1964 Catalog (same picture as the 1962 catalog)
This may be a case of the picture in the catalog being an older version and not the current part supplied.
*3 This chuck was found in a Magna American Corporation Box P/N 27100. Another came with a Mark 2.
After this many years it could be a Chuck in a different box and/or a later Chuck with an earlier tool.
Unknown when the Chuck changed from the Jacobs 3326 to the Multi-Craft Chuck.


Drill Chuck Keys 3 drill Chuck key sizes

Jacobs 33B and 3326, larger gear with ¼” pilot Current Jacobs part # 30251
Cushman & Multi Craft Chucks, smaller gear with 9/32” pilot Current Jacobs part # 30250
Current SS Chuck, larger gear with 9/32” pilot Current Shopsmith part # 501419