Hot lower spindle

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dknapp1
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Location: Paso Robles, CA

Hot lower spindle

Post by dknapp1 »

Hi all - different shopsmith- I have several :D

I stopped using it a while ago as it was having weak power and stopping when I was running as a table saw. I finally got around to looking at it, and while running it through its paces, I noticed that from speeds p-t, it would lose power and sometimes stop, but speed up when I went past t - to the router speeds.

My thought was that the sheaves needed lubrication, so I oiled the top and bottom sheave holes, spun it up and down a couple of times, and that seems to have fixed the problem - for the most part.

What I notice now, is that the lower spindle gets pretty hot, pretty fast, and that it doesn't seem like this headstock goes as fast as my other one - this one is a bit older.

So, I'm wondering if it sounds like I still have a sheave problem, just not as bad as before, and if so, what should I do about it?

Thanks!

dbk
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billmayo
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Hot lower spindle

Post by billmayo »

Sounds as if there were crud on the motor shaft. I normally drop a couple drops of oil on the motor shaft key when oiling the Floating sheave. Then I pull the Floating sheave toward me until the spring is fully compressed a couple times. You must be careful when doing this as your fingers can get caught between the sheave and the belt.

There is a high speed adjustment set screw with thin locking nut under the Speed Control Handle. Caution: Backing out the set screw too far can cause the control sheave fins to hit the Speed Control Assembly leg causing quite a noise. I normally set the set screw head even with the outside of the thin lock nut. The I use a tach to finish the adjustment. For new belts, I set the RPMs to around 5000. Used belts. set to 5200 RPM.

There can be a few problems causing the idler shaft bearings to run a little hot. Too tight a Gilmer or Poly_V belt adjustment. Turning/forcing the Speed Control Handle below the SLOW setting. Too high RPMs set. Misaligned Gilmer or Poly-V belt. Set screw in eccentric too tight.

Does the top of the back half of the headstock get very hot too? I use a one sec test for hot. If I can hold my finger on the hot part for 1 sec, it is OK. Not the best as I do get a burned finger sometimes but it is quick.

dknapp1 wrote:Hi all - different shopsmith- I have several :D

I stopped using it a while ago as it was having weak power and stopping when I was running as a table saw. I finally got around to looking at it, and while running it through its paces, I noticed that from speeds p-t, it would lose power and sometimes stop, but speed up when I went past t - to the router speeds.

My thought was that the sheaves needed lubrication, so I oiled the top and bottom sheave holes, spun it up and down a couple of times, and that seems to have fixed the problem - for the most part.

What I notice now, is that the lower spindle gets pretty hot, pretty fast, and that it doesn't seem like this headstock goes as fast as my other one - this one is a bit older.

So, I'm wondering if it sounds like I still have a sheave problem, just not as bad as before, and if so, what should I do about it?

Thanks!

dbk
Bill Mayo bill.mayo@verizon.net
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)
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dknapp1
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Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: Paso Robles, CA

Post by dknapp1 »

Thanks! I lubed up the motor shaft and pulled the sheave a couple of times and that seems to have helped a lot - it no longer stops in the p-t section, though it still runs a bit rough through there.

The lower shaft seems to be cooler now, though it's also freezing in the garage.

There is no heat on top on either side of the headstock.

I'm going to watch sawdust session 23 to see if he explains how to verify that the poly v belt isn't too tight - if it's not there, I'll search my other docs and see what I come up with.

Thanks!

dbk
David Knapp
Paso Robles, CA
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JPG
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23/hot shaft

Post by JPG »

In session 23 Nick says" about 1/8" deflection of belt is right. He also said to adjust eccentric to 'just tighten' belt. Does your intermediate shaft eccentric also have the set screw as well as the housing clamp??? If the set screw is too tight, it will put pressure on the bearing(Bill already said this). Finally a bad bearing will run HOT!

P.S. also ck #23 for high speed adjustment. Bill Mayo said too slow will heat shaft etc You said it seemed to be running slower than another SS.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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dknapp1
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Location: Paso Robles, CA

Post by dknapp1 »

I believe the poly belt was misaligned as there were 2 slots on either side of the belt, and Nick said it should be 1 and 3, so I moved the belt over. During that process I also decided to fool around with the eccentric housing, but now I can't get that bad boy back out.

Is there a magical way to remove it so I can check the bearing? Nick suggested copious amounts of swearing, but I guess I need some new vocabulary.

Any thought on how to best remove the eccentric thing would be greatly appreciated. It sure doesn't pull out smoothly like on the video!

Thanks!

dbk
David Knapp
Paso Robles, CA
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dknapp1
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: Paso Robles, CA

Post by dknapp1 »

Also it did have the set screw, and it looks like someone messed with it a long time ago as there appeared to be blue loctite on the set screw.

Right now I'm thinking that I should check the bearings.

dbk
David Knapp
Paso Robles, CA
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JPG
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Blue Loctite

Post by JPG »

dknapp1 wrote:Also it did have the set screw, and it looks like someone messed with it a long time ago as there appeared to be blue loctite on the set screw.

Right now I'm thinking that I should check the bearings.

dbk
Blue Loctite...Sounds like something Bill Mayo would use. Couldn't be him since you are near the 'other' coast.

Did any of it get on the eccentric? Might explain difficulty removing it. Clean it up and put a LIGHT coat of oil on it b4 inserting it back. Also clean/oil LIGHTLY the casting hole and bearing. MAY make it easier to remove 'next' time. Rotating it (using adjustment slot) helps get it out. Make sure you are pushing it straight(parallel to bore).

I assume the 1/3 made it so that the quill edge of belt is in the 2nd groove of the top pulley and centered on the lower pulley( which would be correct).
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝

Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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dknapp1
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: Paso Robles, CA

Post by dknapp1 »

I managed to suck it up and remove it!

The bearing turned smoothly, but didn't spin freely - should it spin?

I put some hoppes on it and managed to get the whole thing back together again.

Though now I broke the retaining loop, and my experience from my other headstock tells me that I need to drop the motor to fix that properly.

Since my other headstock is on the bench, and I still have a working one, I'm going to order some parts for the HS on the bench and fix one at a time :D

Then, I'll post again when I have it all apart and I can demonstrate my lack of experience once again!

Thanks all - be back later :D

dbk
David Knapp
Paso Robles, CA
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beeg
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Post by beeg »

Why not order all the parts you need to fix both? You'll save some shipping cost that way.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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dknapp1
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:19 pm
Location: Paso Robles, CA

Post by dknapp1 »

Do I need the whole 51556 assembly again, or can I just order the retaining spring?
David Knapp
Paso Robles, CA
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