Restoration Progress On My 1955 Greenie

bucksaw · Post by **bucksaw** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:22 am

judaspre1982 wrote:Mike, cant wait to see the complete project as a whole. I know how you like to keep things as original as possible. I noticed in your caster photos the wheels are plastic. Both may 1955 Greenies original wheels are metal. I have a spare set of metal wheels somewhere in my shed if you are interested. I would have to dig them out and make sure they are in good enough condition. Here is what the metal caster wheels look like http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?t=2121 Let me know----Dave

I have a 53 greenie and my wheels are metal, but are a different style than yours. Which roll easier, the metal or plastic?

nebraska · Post by **nebraska** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:32 am

Mike,

If everything is right and true between the headstock, belt cover, and way tubes, this may be one of those weird times in life when the CORRECT fix IS the EASY fix.

PS - Thanks for the new warning stickers! I received them and affixed one last night.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:52 am

dusty wrote:I wish I could help. I understand why you want a proper fix. You have done such a fantastic job thus far. It would be a shame to butcher it now.

If the motor cover is removed (moved to one end), does the headstock move according to expectations?

I'll be in the shop today, I'll sit and stare at the problem for awhile to see if I can come up with anything. I think mine chatter as well. I will report back.

The headstock actually moves fine even with the belt cover contacting the way tube. It just makes that metal on metal resonating sound (almost like a screeching tuning fork

). I know that the nice protective coating of Johnson's paste wax I put on the tubes is now history and will continue to be unless it's fixed.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:05 am

bucksaw wrote:Have you done any measuring to determine if the holes were punched in the same position on both sides? I'm guessing you don't have a second cover to try?

I didn't try anything yet Dave. I was too tired and bummed when I noticed it last night. That was the first time I moved the headstock since I installed it Friday. I didn't notice it when I put the headstock on the tubes while reassembling but then I can blame that on Led Zeppelin

.

No second cover to try either. That WOULD determine if it's cover or an alignment issue of some kind.

I am going to remove the cover and take a good look at it tonight when I get out of work.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:27 am

bucksaw wrote:I have a 53 greenie and my wheels are metal, but are a different style than yours. Which roll easier, the metal or plastic?

Basically, rolling resistance is made up of two components, surface area in contact and the amount of deflection caused by the load pressing down. In the case of hard plastic and metal, the difference is most likely negligible.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:00 pm

mickyd wrote:Technical issue.....notice in the photo that there is no clearance between the belt cover and the way tube on the left side of the photo only.

[ATTACH]4228[/ATTACH]

As I move the headstock on the way tubes, it moves easily but I know that the belt cover is rubbing. I can not only hear it, but also see the chatter marks it leaves on the tubes. I've tried loosening the belt cover screws and jimmying the cover around but there is absolutely NO SLOP at all between the belt cover and the headstock housing. EASY fix would be to just remove some material from the ID of the hole BUT would much prefer a CORRECT fix if there is one. Anyone know of a CORRECT fix method or is it possible that this is how it came from the factory and I should live with it.

All I can think of is either the cover is sprung and it needs to be tweaked (how I would do that is a mystery), the headstock housing is somehow out of horizontal alignment relative to the way tubes (no idea how I would adjust that alignment) or the cover had alway rubbed and I should not concern myself with it.

What say you guys?

Since I doubt the headstock/way tube is somehow 'misadjusted'(unless there is excessive wear:( ) I think a cover 'tweak' is appropriate.
Upon examination of my goldie, I notice the cover is also SLIGHTLY lower also but NOT to the point of rubbing. The top of the cover seems to determine how low the sides 'hang'. Applying DOWNWARD pressure on the side of the top where it is rubbing will lower the top on that side, thus raising the hole.
It may be that the motor housing being low is also pulling down on that side.

To test sanity of this suggestion, first shim the side that is low at the top.

Hope this helps!!!!:)

BTW The cover does NOT 'form' easily. Leverage(non-marring) will be needed.

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:20 pm

I revisited the shop and tried the following on my Goldie belt cover. I applied a twisting force to the top corner such that the top was being forced in(down) and that side(the one where the waytube clearance was 'less') was being forced 'out'. The result was that the top now is slightly raised above where it was originally AND the side is now pulled out so that the cover is free to ROTATE slightly allowing the 'low' side to rotate upwards.

This did allow equalization of the hole/way tube clearance. The screws seem to hold it in this position.

Applying twisting force to the other side(top up, side in) MAY restore a tighter fit at the top which would self align as desired(equal way tube/hole clearance).

All of this ASSUMES the top IS the critical fit point and that the sides and shoulders and motor pan are clearing so as to NOT contribute to the mis-alignment.

mickyd · Post by **mickyd** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:01 pm

jpg - I know your onto the correct fix but I can't picture what your doing in posts 202 and 203. I understand each word individually but when I put them all together, my brain trips a circuit and I have to reboot.

Your explanation is VERY detailed but I think (know) I am missing the approach. It could be because I am mentally locked in to RAISING the bottom left side of the housing but you found another approach. I DO think I understand where you say

JPG40504 wrote:"first shim the side that is low at the top"

. Here's my interpretation....

1. Remove cover.
2. Place a piece of shimming material on top surface of headstock housing.
3. Force cover back on so that it rides UP ON TOP AND OVER of the shim
4. Observe effect at raising the hole that is contacting the way tube.

Correct? If so, then what? Leave the shim in place and call it a completed fix?

JPG · Post by **JPG** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 1:38 pm

mickyd wrote:jpg - I know your onto the correct fix but I can't picture what your doing in posts 202 and 203. I understand each word individually but when I put them all together, my brain trips a circuit and I have to reboot.

Your explanation is VERY detailed but I think (know) I am missing the approach. It could be because I am mentally locked in to RAISING the bottom left side of the housing but you found another approach. I DO think I understand where you say
jpg wrote:"first shim the side that is low at the top"
. Here's my interpretation....

1. Remove cover.
2. Place a piece of shimming material on top surface of headstock housing.
3. Force cover back on so that it rides UP ON TOP AND OVER of the shim
4. Observe effect at raising the hole that is contacting the way tube.

Correct? If so, then what? Leave the shim in place and call it a completed fix?

The purpose of the 'shim' suggestion was to sanity check my thinking, not a permanent fix. The later posts indicate my "success" in equalizing my cover clearance.

STEP by STEP(and hopefully clearer).
1) remove two belt cover screws, and set aside.
2) slide the belt cover off the headstock.
3) notice the shape of the top of the belt cover. It is SLIGHTLY curved out across the top and the sides form two rounded 'corners'.
4) Using some fork like object (open end wrench(padded)) apply a twisting force(torsion) to the 'low' corner of the top.
This force should be applied so as to bend the top in(down) and the side out. Forcing the top in(down) will tend to raise that side of the cover up off the waytube(when reassembled). Forcing the cover out will allow slight rotation of the cover(relative to the headstock) thus also SLIGHTLY increasing hole/tube clearance. This torsion is applied in a counter-clockwise direction when viewed from the headstock side(open side) and to the 'corner' on the right.
5) APPLY torsion(still c'clkwise , 'fork' repositioned) to the 'other corner'. Top out(up) and side in. This will help restore the tendency to self align and therefore depend less on the screws holding it in exact position.
6) Slide cover back onto headstock, replace screws and determine degree of 'success'. Repeat as required.

I know! 'step' 4,5 got muddy again. Detailed understanding of the intent IS necessary.

Consider what happens at the hole when the cover is RAISED by lowering the top corner. When put back on the headstock, the lowered edge of the top will cause the cover to go onto the headstock slightly raised from where it was before. Top edge bent in will contact the headstock and force the REST of the cover to a 'higher' position. Thus the same as a shim!
This makes more sense when the parts are 'right there'!

judaspre1982 · Post by **judaspre1982** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:03 pm

==========================