FWIW The motor bearings 'discovered' in my 1986 510 are the following dimensions(they vary from earlier posts)
Rear bearing .625"x40x12 nachi 620310nsl
fan bearing 17x40x12 skf 6203-zz
The fan bearing was sheilded, but not sealed(it was needing replacing)
The rear bearing was sealed and in good condition.
The motor shaft measures 5/8" at rear, and 17mm at fan bearing location. The extended motor shaft(for sheaves etc.) was 5/8".
Shopsmith Bearings
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JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34632
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
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greenhornet
- Silver Member
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:30 pm
- Location: Hampton VA
Maintenance issues on Model 510
You fellows sound like you are well versed in the SS. I'm in need of some help, please. My speed control dial decided to crap out this past Wednesday. My machine was manufactured in 1979 and has been owned by me since then, so maybe it was just time for replacement. While it was out, I decided to try and lubricate the machine. I cleaned the quadrant assbly with some mineral spirits and put a dab of grease on the worm gear. The worm control shaft turned very hard. Maybe that is why the speed control dial went out.
I tried locating the lubrication spot on the floating sheave, but have been unable to find it. And, I can't find the lubrication point on the control sheave assbly either. Any suggestions on these?
This evening, I turned on my machine and it just hums. It's never done that before. What have I done this time? In over 30 years of use, I've never had any problem with my machine except for an "on/off" switch go out years ago.
Please help me as I can't bear the thought of being without my beloved machine! By the way, I live in Hampton VA and if any of you live near, please let me know ASAP
Thanks!
Ray
I tried locating the lubrication spot on the floating sheave, but have been unable to find it. And, I can't find the lubrication point on the control sheave assbly either. Any suggestions on these?
This evening, I turned on my machine and it just hums. It's never done that before. What have I done this time? In over 30 years of use, I've never had any problem with my machine except for an "on/off" switch go out years ago.
Please help me as I can't bear the thought of being without my beloved machine! By the way, I live in Hampton VA and if any of you live near, please let me know ASAP
Thanks!
Ray
http://www.shopsmithacademy.com/SS_Archives/SS111/SS111_Mark_V_Maintenance.htm
Try watching this sawdust session for lubing the SS. I HOPE this is knot the first time it's been lubed.
Try watching this sawdust session for lubing the SS. I HOPE this is knot the first time it's been lubed.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
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Bob
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Bob
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davidplatt
- Bronze Member
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:09 am
Stuck 510
Concerning greenhornet's problem with the speed-control quadrant problems and the 510 which now only "hums", here are a few thoughts based on my limited experience.
My own 500 Greenie had a speed control which was becoming harder and harder to turn, especially CCW (to reduce speed). I took it out, planning to lubricate it, and found that the worm gear had been running somewhat off-center on the quadrant teeth, and that the quadrant teeth had actually been squashed (or had cold-flowed over the years). The upper tips of each quadrant tooth had been pressed forwards (in the "into the body of the machine" direction, if I recall properly) and were actually obstructing the adjacent "valleys" in the quadrant. I believe that this had the effect of "pinching" the threads on the worm gear, causing it to bind.
I have a new speed-control assembly on [back]order from SS. In the interim, I went at the problem with a small file, removing the "bulged" metal in each quadrant tooth and restoring the shape of the "valleys" to something resembling the original. This leaves me with thinner quadrant teeth than before - I don't expect the repaired quadrant to last indefinitely - but with luck it'll survive until SS restocks their supply of quadrants.
I also punched out the roll pin at the base of the quadrant, put the assembly base in a vise and used a wrench to bend the "ears" back into shape (they had bent apart, leaving a lot of play in the roll pin mounting). A machinist friend and I then completely replaced the roll pin, reaming out the openings a bit and pressing in a piece of steel rod (a very tight fit; we'll never get it apart again). The quadrant now rotates very smoothly, with little play.
I lubricated the worm gear threads and the quadrant teeth with White Lightning, a wax-in-solvent lube intended for bicycle chains. It's supposed to be "self-shedding" (doesn't attract dirt). We'll see how it does. I took the worm gear out of the housing, buff-cleaned its shaft and the bushing, and reassembled it with one drop of machine oil for good luck.
Put the whole assembly back in, reconnected the little spring from the control sheaf... and found that the quill would not rotate at all more than a few degrees without going CLUNK and stopping. Blast - something's wrong.
Well, not really (and this may be the clue for greenhornet's stuck, humming 510). When the worm gear is all the way at the "very fast" end of its travel (as it likely is when you first put it back in) the ribs on the control sheaf will hit the quadrant or its mounting, and prevent the motor from running. The fix is to gently rotate the quill back and forth, while rotating the control towards the low-speed end (and/or pressing the control sheaf back towards the motor). This will move the sheaf back far enough to let it clear the speed control, and you can then follow the recommended procedure of rotating the quill by hand (via the sanding disk, ideally) and slowly turning the speed back down to low.
Once I got everything back together, my Greenie seems to have become happy... it runs fine, and when it's running the speed control turns quite easily in both directions.
This same problem may or may not be what's wrong with the stuck 510. In any case it sounds as if something is keeping the motor from rotating. Might be a stuck motor bearing, or a failed starting capacitor, or it might be something like what I had encountered... an obstruction which prevents the control sheaf from rotating. I'd recommend seeing whether the control sheaf and/or quill can be rotated manually (with everything safely unplugged, of course!). If you can get the quill to rotate easily by hand, but the motor won't rotate it, then the problem almost has to be in the motor (or is a broken Poly-V drive belt). If the quill is immobile, and neither it nor the control sheaf can be rotated by hand, then you probably have a jam or obstruction somewhere (which, again, could be in the motor, or somewhere "downstream" of it).
Good luck!
My own 500 Greenie had a speed control which was becoming harder and harder to turn, especially CCW (to reduce speed). I took it out, planning to lubricate it, and found that the worm gear had been running somewhat off-center on the quadrant teeth, and that the quadrant teeth had actually been squashed (or had cold-flowed over the years). The upper tips of each quadrant tooth had been pressed forwards (in the "into the body of the machine" direction, if I recall properly) and were actually obstructing the adjacent "valleys" in the quadrant. I believe that this had the effect of "pinching" the threads on the worm gear, causing it to bind.
I have a new speed-control assembly on [back]order from SS. In the interim, I went at the problem with a small file, removing the "bulged" metal in each quadrant tooth and restoring the shape of the "valleys" to something resembling the original. This leaves me with thinner quadrant teeth than before - I don't expect the repaired quadrant to last indefinitely - but with luck it'll survive until SS restocks their supply of quadrants.
I also punched out the roll pin at the base of the quadrant, put the assembly base in a vise and used a wrench to bend the "ears" back into shape (they had bent apart, leaving a lot of play in the roll pin mounting). A machinist friend and I then completely replaced the roll pin, reaming out the openings a bit and pressing in a piece of steel rod (a very tight fit; we'll never get it apart again). The quadrant now rotates very smoothly, with little play.
I lubricated the worm gear threads and the quadrant teeth with White Lightning, a wax-in-solvent lube intended for bicycle chains. It's supposed to be "self-shedding" (doesn't attract dirt). We'll see how it does. I took the worm gear out of the housing, buff-cleaned its shaft and the bushing, and reassembled it with one drop of machine oil for good luck.
Put the whole assembly back in, reconnected the little spring from the control sheaf... and found that the quill would not rotate at all more than a few degrees without going CLUNK and stopping. Blast - something's wrong.
Well, not really (and this may be the clue for greenhornet's stuck, humming 510). When the worm gear is all the way at the "very fast" end of its travel (as it likely is when you first put it back in) the ribs on the control sheaf will hit the quadrant or its mounting, and prevent the motor from running. The fix is to gently rotate the quill back and forth, while rotating the control towards the low-speed end (and/or pressing the control sheaf back towards the motor). This will move the sheaf back far enough to let it clear the speed control, and you can then follow the recommended procedure of rotating the quill by hand (via the sanding disk, ideally) and slowly turning the speed back down to low.
Once I got everything back together, my Greenie seems to have become happy... it runs fine, and when it's running the speed control turns quite easily in both directions.
This same problem may or may not be what's wrong with the stuck 510. In any case it sounds as if something is keeping the motor from rotating. Might be a stuck motor bearing, or a failed starting capacitor, or it might be something like what I had encountered... an obstruction which prevents the control sheaf from rotating. I'd recommend seeing whether the control sheaf and/or quill can be rotated manually (with everything safely unplugged, of course!). If you can get the quill to rotate easily by hand, but the motor won't rotate it, then the problem almost has to be in the motor (or is a broken Poly-V drive belt). If the quill is immobile, and neither it nor the control sheaf can be rotated by hand, then you probably have a jam or obstruction somewhere (which, again, could be in the motor, or somewhere "downstream" of it).
Good luck!
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JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34632
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
Adding to the difficulty of finding bearing part numbers is the variation in identifying part number with different manufacturers. This 'search' is greatly aided if one knows the 'size' of the bearing.
Therefore, the following: id x od x length
Main(topmost) shaft bearings(2)..... 25mm x 52mm x 15mm double shield
Quill(single bearing)........................ 5/8" x 35mm x 11mm doubleshielded?
(2 piece shaft).............................. 15mm x 32mm x 7mm doubleshielded?
...................................................17mm x 35mm x 10mm doubleshielded?
(2 bearing(a)............................... 17mm x 35mm x 10mmdoubleshielded?
...................................................17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleshielded?
(2 bearing(b)................................ 20mm x 32mm x 7mm doubleshielded?
......................................................5/8" x 35mm x 11mm doubleshielded?
Motor bearing(2)......................... 17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
At least one motor(1 each).......... 17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
.......................................................5/8" x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
I believe this to be correct. If not let me know & I will fix any errors.
Therefore, the following: id x od x length
Main(topmost) shaft bearings(2)..... 25mm x 52mm x 15mm double shield
Quill(single bearing)........................ 5/8" x 35mm x 11mm doubleshielded?
(2 piece shaft).............................. 15mm x 32mm x 7mm doubleshielded?
...................................................17mm x 35mm x 10mm doubleshielded?
(2 bearing(a)............................... 17mm x 35mm x 10mmdoubleshielded?
...................................................17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleshielded?
(2 bearing(b)................................ 20mm x 32mm x 7mm doubleshielded?
......................................................5/8" x 35mm x 11mm doubleshielded?
Motor bearing(2)......................... 17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
At least one motor(1 each).......... 17mm x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
.......................................................5/8" x 40mm x 12mm doubleSEALED
I believe this to be correct. If not let me know & I will fix any errors.
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
Is there anyone that can confirm that they have successfully used a Fafnir 202KDD5 bearing for the single bearing quill? I went to my local bearing shop today and found that the '5' on the end indicates a .6248" bore, whereas I believe a 202KDD4 was a .6250" bore. I want to make sure that the slightly smaller bore is what is used. If so, I'm guessing that is so the bearing has a tight fit on the shaft. Thanks!
Loren
Loren
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JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34632
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
FWIW I measured both a new 2 bearing and an old(Goldie) single bearing shaft and the both measured 1 to 2 mills less than .625. I put a '5/8"' bearing on the older shaft and it went on/off easily. The fafnir bearing(if your dimensions are correct) would be a press fit(almost interference). Once on, it would not contribute to any runout!
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╟JPG ╢
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Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
I have installed quite a few Fafnir 202KDD5 bearings in single bearing quills. I install the bearing on the quill shaft and then the bearing and quill shaft into the quill housing. Both should be a press fit (.0005-.002). If either fit is easy to do, I use blue (semi-permanent) LocTite to tighten the fit. LocTite actually sells a solution just for bearings.hobbydad wrote:Is there anyone that can confirm that they have successfully used a Fafnir 202KDD5 bearing for the single bearing quill? I went to my local bearing shop today and found that the '5' on the end indicates a .6248" bore, whereas I believe a 202KDD4 was a .6250" bore. I want to make sure that the slightly smaller bore is what is used. If so, I'm guessing that is so the bearing has a tight fit on the shaft. Thanks!
Loren
Note that the quill bearing retaining snap ring goes on with the flat side againest the bearing. There may be a small thin spacer ring that may be present when removing the quill shaft and bearing.
Bill Mayo bill.mayo@verizon.net
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)
Shopsmith owner since 73. Sell, repair and rebuild Shopsmith, Total Shop & Wood Master headstocks, SPTs, attachments, accessories and parts. US Navy 1955-1975 (FTCS/E-8)