Hi,
For my part of this tread I will no doubt be asking more questions then providing answers.
I've spent a few hours reading past posts and found that a lot of them deal with issues and problems, a smaller number deal with improvements and upgrades, but, however good they were I still seemed to get bogged down by the vast number of them. And no I didn't even get close to reading them all.
As a first post I'm interested in the table insert (502736) #98 in the online parts catalog. I've read that they are no longer around but they sure do seem to be in the BUY category.
The one in my table is home made, on the low side of quality it will most likely work but then I'm going to be bothered by it until it is gone.
I'd seen a replacement mentioned, I then searched it out, the quality of the workmanship is excellent and well out of my price range but for those that like really nice things this would be a must buy. I of course reference the ones sold by Jeff at:
http://www.califsawdustman.com/
From another site someone said that the insets for a "Delta 14" " would fit as they are also 2-1/2".
When I went searching for these I came across some zero clearance inserts, there is nothing to say one could not cut a "standard" slot in one of these for general use and then use another for those special times when a ZCI is called for. The price seems reasonable and is now on my shopping list. I would like to here from anyone who has tried these.
http://www.ptreeusa.com/band_saw_acc.htm#3701
item 1750 (even says shopsmith).
The other option would be to make my own, uhmw plastic would be an easy task but in the long run the material cost and time spent makes me think this is not the best option.
Anyone up for a discussion on the first subject of this post?
Ed
Modification Bandsaw (Cast Iron table version)
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Modification Bandsaw (Cast Iron table version)
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Moving right along here, now we are on to bearings. This post is not dealing with the wheel bearing but rather the ones dealing with blade control.
This is an inside shot of my bandsaw:
[ATTACH]13594[/ATTACH]
According to the date tag this is a 1985 model. I just got it so I have no idea as to the history of it. The "included 1/4" blade" was badly rusted and kinked, I broke it apart as it was no where near being usable. This means I have no blade to evaluate the bearings and alignment, but I have ready read many many stories here about those issues and want to avoid this area of ownership.
For this post I'm interested in the three areas shown, the auto tracking #56 and the upper and lower ones #63 and #98.
This posting here caught my attention as I searched the forum for bandsaw information:
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?p=95479
Adding the double bearings sure looks like a great modification.
However I did happen to find something else that caught my attention when I went to visit this site:
http://www.spaceageceramicguideblocks.com/
Look under Products, Thrust Bearings and notice that they have a shopsmith version listed. No information back from an information request I sent on Tuesday but if anyone here knows more then what we can get from the web site feel free to inform us.
Then there is the shopsmith bandsaw bearing retro-fit (555074), (was just on sale). That seems to be mostly for retro fitting older bandsaws but would also be a source/kit for the existing versions of the bearings all in one package. I didn't check the bearing prices as single items so I have no idea how that would stack up. I've also read that some like the older design of bearings better and would not care to change them out.
I've also read that some felt the shopsmith bearings "fail" rather quickly for bearings, other seem to think that maybe shopsmith had a "bad batch", or maybe other things are at play. I did note some felt the price of the bearings was cheap enough to now worry about it. Just for reference the roller bearings (514007) are listed at $12.18 each, not cheap in my book but perhaps the price has gone up since the earlier postings.
Does this summarize things pretty well?
Ed
This is an inside shot of my bandsaw:
[ATTACH]13594[/ATTACH]
According to the date tag this is a 1985 model. I just got it so I have no idea as to the history of it. The "included 1/4" blade" was badly rusted and kinked, I broke it apart as it was no where near being usable. This means I have no blade to evaluate the bearings and alignment, but I have ready read many many stories here about those issues and want to avoid this area of ownership.
For this post I'm interested in the three areas shown, the auto tracking #56 and the upper and lower ones #63 and #98.
This posting here caught my attention as I searched the forum for bandsaw information:
http://www.shopsmith.net/forums/showthread.htm?p=95479
Adding the double bearings sure looks like a great modification.
However I did happen to find something else that caught my attention when I went to visit this site:
http://www.spaceageceramicguideblocks.com/
Look under Products, Thrust Bearings and notice that they have a shopsmith version listed. No information back from an information request I sent on Tuesday but if anyone here knows more then what we can get from the web site feel free to inform us.
Then there is the shopsmith bandsaw bearing retro-fit (555074), (was just on sale). That seems to be mostly for retro fitting older bandsaws but would also be a source/kit for the existing versions of the bearings all in one package. I didn't check the bearing prices as single items so I have no idea how that would stack up. I've also read that some like the older design of bearings better and would not care to change them out.
I've also read that some felt the shopsmith bearings "fail" rather quickly for bearings, other seem to think that maybe shopsmith had a "bad batch", or maybe other things are at play. I did note some felt the price of the bearings was cheap enough to now worry about it. Just for reference the roller bearings (514007) are listed at $12.18 each, not cheap in my book but perhaps the price has gone up since the earlier postings.
Does this summarize things pretty well?
Ed
- Attachments
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- ssbandsaw sc.jpg (78.93 KiB) Viewed 27392 times
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Next subject guide blocks.
The ones in my shopsmith bandsaw I'm guessing are original equipment, or replacement original equipment. Without ever doing anything more then looking at them I know I went them gone.
I got my "other" bandsaw in the early 1970, it used the same material abet a different shape but still the same idea. I hated them, mostly for the noise. When a "softer" version came out I purchased them and was happier. Then came the layered lubricated phenolic ones, about what is now called "cool blocks", they were a major step forward and they were the first ones I liked. Soon, and I'm still talking a long time ago ceramic ones came out, and yes I got a set and loved them. The thing was I had a friend who kept bragging about his carter set, better then say sliced bread and so on. I looked at them and the price was just to high, even then when I had a good size tool budget. I mean I paid $125 for the saw sans stand and motor. I built a stand and got a good enough motor from AMT, if memory serves about $30. The guides were about a hundred and a half at that point.
To keep this on the short side of long when I retired I set aside money to do some upgrades, ie 500 to 520 etc. Shopping around I found the Carter system for about $130, once installed I really wish I had not waited so long to do so. BIG fan. Got the stabilizer version later, nice but I don't do much of that sort of work on the bandsaw so I kinda wasted money for that at $60.
I've seen several posts with people also enjoying their Carter System, I'd like to do that too but I can not spend the $110 anytime soon for that addition. I've also read that people are happy with the ceramic version, that appeals to me cost wise and since I have experienced them some years back I'm now leaning that way.
Just in case someone runs in to a Carter System for more like $60-$70 in the next little while please let me know. Not sure I have the money this month but I could fiddle with things for that good a sale price like that.
So besides the help in looking at sale prices anyone have other comments they would like to make?
Ed
The ones in my shopsmith bandsaw I'm guessing are original equipment, or replacement original equipment. Without ever doing anything more then looking at them I know I went them gone.
I got my "other" bandsaw in the early 1970, it used the same material abet a different shape but still the same idea. I hated them, mostly for the noise. When a "softer" version came out I purchased them and was happier. Then came the layered lubricated phenolic ones, about what is now called "cool blocks", they were a major step forward and they were the first ones I liked. Soon, and I'm still talking a long time ago ceramic ones came out, and yes I got a set and loved them. The thing was I had a friend who kept bragging about his carter set, better then say sliced bread and so on. I looked at them and the price was just to high, even then when I had a good size tool budget. I mean I paid $125 for the saw sans stand and motor. I built a stand and got a good enough motor from AMT, if memory serves about $30. The guides were about a hundred and a half at that point.
To keep this on the short side of long when I retired I set aside money to do some upgrades, ie 500 to 520 etc. Shopping around I found the Carter system for about $130, once installed I really wish I had not waited so long to do so. BIG fan. Got the stabilizer version later, nice but I don't do much of that sort of work on the bandsaw so I kinda wasted money for that at $60.
I've seen several posts with people also enjoying their Carter System, I'd like to do that too but I can not spend the $110 anytime soon for that addition. I've also read that people are happy with the ceramic version, that appeals to me cost wise and since I have experienced them some years back I'm now leaning that way.
Just in case someone runs in to a Carter System for more like $60-$70 in the next little while please let me know. Not sure I have the money this month but I could fiddle with things for that good a sale price like that.
So besides the help in looking at sale prices anyone have other comments they would like to make?
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Last post for the night, but more to come later.
In my searching I also come upon this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2muM2mgn ... er&list=UL
Increasing the throat on the shopsmith bandsaw.
Anyone do this?
Quality of the video is bad but I think I understand what materials get removed but if someone has real pictures of what they did I'd like to see them.
I think that is upper guide bracket be modified (5025589) but I'm not positive. If so then a replacement is under $9, not so bad a cost if things go wrong. Maybe someone here even has one they might have an extra abd be willing to "test" with???
In my search on the web site I didn't come across any discussion on this, could be I missed it or could be there was none.
Soooooooo what say you?
Ed
In my searching I also come upon this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2muM2mgn ... er&list=UL
Increasing the throat on the shopsmith bandsaw.
Anyone do this?
Quality of the video is bad but I think I understand what materials get removed but if someone has real pictures of what they did I'd like to see them.
I think that is upper guide bracket be modified (5025589) but I'm not positive. If so then a replacement is under $9, not so bad a cost if things go wrong. Maybe someone here even has one they might have an extra abd be willing to "test" with???
In my search on the web site I didn't come across any discussion on this, could be I missed it or could be there was none.
Soooooooo what say you?
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
Ed:
Welcome back!
This guy increased the throat on his SS bandsaw and shows some good detail:
http://www.crenshawweb.com/texastele/ttp04.htm
I replaced the barrell shaped guide bearings on my saw by buying small ball bearings locally and making up the mounting bolts. It was awhile ago so I forget the details, but I recall finding some dimensional details here on the forum.
I have "cool blocks" and like them. I got them at Lee Valley Tools for the Shopsmith for $15.50:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 36&p=30072
Some food for thought.
Welcome back!
This guy increased the throat on his SS bandsaw and shows some good detail:
http://www.crenshawweb.com/texastele/ttp04.htm
I replaced the barrell shaped guide bearings on my saw by buying small ball bearings locally and making up the mounting bolts. It was awhile ago so I forget the details, but I recall finding some dimensional details here on the forum.
I have "cool blocks" and like them. I got them at Lee Valley Tools for the Shopsmith for $15.50:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 36&p=30072
Some food for thought.
Peter
a 510,a Mini, dedicated SS drillpress, SS spt's, home made SS belt grinder, SS piston air system, Southbend 10k lathe, mill/drill, Taig
a 510,a Mini, dedicated SS drillpress, SS spt's, home made SS belt grinder, SS piston air system, Southbend 10k lathe, mill/drill, Taig
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foxtrapper
- Gold Member
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:05 am
Inserts.
Unless I am working a fiddly little piece, the insert doesn't much come into play. It's the table that the piece is riding on. The table has adjuster screws for the insert to sit on, so I can compensate for anything reasonable I whack an insert out of. That said, $7.99 for a pack of three inserts is hard to beat.
My biggest gripe with the inserts is the main table, in particular the screws the insert sets on. They drift, causing the insert to drift. Down isn't a problem, but sometimes it drifts up. The wood catches on it then.
Bearings
Seems like much ado about nothing. Buy a good sealed bearing from a bearing store for a few dollars. Replace if it's wearing out. I don't see the point in stacked bearings or fancy bearings. If you've got the saw set up right and you're cutting right, they barely come into play. Only when you're feeding too fast or have the saw maladjusted will they experience blade riding and the resulting wear.
Inserts
Seems like much ado about very little. It's a wear item, so you've got to dress it square it and eventually replace it. Graphite is slippery, but it wears out quicker. Ceramic is harder, but scrapes the blade a bit. But the difference between them isn't profound. Again, adjustment and use. If you put them in so the blade is pushed off center, they will wear fast. Ride the teeth and it cuts the insert. If you try to cut a curve in the wood too tightly for the blade, the blade twists and wears the inserts rapidly. Dressing the blade itself I found made quite a difference in my ability to make curved cuts with less trouble.
Modification
Can't see the video for increasing the throat depth, but a modification I've thought would be usefull would be the ability to twist the blade. So you could make a cross cut with less wood waste. Should be a simple enough matter to rig up replacement guide that will let you do this, and it probably already exists somewhere.
Unless I am working a fiddly little piece, the insert doesn't much come into play. It's the table that the piece is riding on. The table has adjuster screws for the insert to sit on, so I can compensate for anything reasonable I whack an insert out of. That said, $7.99 for a pack of three inserts is hard to beat.
My biggest gripe with the inserts is the main table, in particular the screws the insert sets on. They drift, causing the insert to drift. Down isn't a problem, but sometimes it drifts up. The wood catches on it then.
Bearings
Seems like much ado about nothing. Buy a good sealed bearing from a bearing store for a few dollars. Replace if it's wearing out. I don't see the point in stacked bearings or fancy bearings. If you've got the saw set up right and you're cutting right, they barely come into play. Only when you're feeding too fast or have the saw maladjusted will they experience blade riding and the resulting wear.
Inserts
Seems like much ado about very little. It's a wear item, so you've got to dress it square it and eventually replace it. Graphite is slippery, but it wears out quicker. Ceramic is harder, but scrapes the blade a bit. But the difference between them isn't profound. Again, adjustment and use. If you put them in so the blade is pushed off center, they will wear fast. Ride the teeth and it cuts the insert. If you try to cut a curve in the wood too tightly for the blade, the blade twists and wears the inserts rapidly. Dressing the blade itself I found made quite a difference in my ability to make curved cuts with less trouble.
Modification
Can't see the video for increasing the throat depth, but a modification I've thought would be usefull would be the ability to twist the blade. So you could make a cross cut with less wood waste. Should be a simple enough matter to rig up replacement guide that will let you do this, and it probably already exists somewhere.
Morning is here and time for a few more posts from me. Glad to see the responses that have come in so far.
This subject is cover changes this time.
I see shopsmith has a bandsaw side cover upgrade (522221). The picture shows the "view port" and I assume at this point it would have the port to attach the vacuum hose. (I have done both of these modification to my other bandsaw and have found that to be a big help.) I see no down side to doing the same thing to my shopsmith band saw. The cover isn't pretty but for now I can live with that. I will perhaps get the a new one someday just for the cosmetics of it all. Any comments on this? Seems like a no brainer but I've missed things before.
With the vacuum port do you still get sawdust fall out? If so anyone done something about that?
The final modification I can think of to this system is a tire brush. I've wanted to add one to my other machine but still have never gotten around to it... Can anyone reference me to a picture of what they have done?
Ed
This subject is cover changes this time.
I see shopsmith has a bandsaw side cover upgrade (522221). The picture shows the "view port" and I assume at this point it would have the port to attach the vacuum hose. (I have done both of these modification to my other bandsaw and have found that to be a big help.) I see no down side to doing the same thing to my shopsmith band saw. The cover isn't pretty but for now I can live with that. I will perhaps get the a new one someday just for the cosmetics of it all. Any comments on this? Seems like a no brainer but I've missed things before.
With the vacuum port do you still get sawdust fall out? If so anyone done something about that?
The final modification I can think of to this system is a tire brush. I've wanted to add one to my other machine but still have never gotten around to it... Can anyone reference me to a picture of what they have done?
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
At this point I think I have covered the changes I'm interested in makeing at least at this time. Am I missing something you think is important?
For now I am leaving certain changes off my list such as:
Upgrade to the current table system, out of my price range and I don't really feel the need for them anyway.
Offset tubes, no need for them.
Fence systems, don't have any on my other bandsaw and don't think I need them for the shopsmith. I will have to remake some of the jigs and fixtures I use but that is one of the things I like to do.
Ed
For now I am leaving certain changes off my list such as:
Upgrade to the current table system, out of my price range and I don't really feel the need for them anyway.
Offset tubes, no need for them.
Fence systems, don't have any on my other bandsaw and don't think I need them for the shopsmith. I will have to remake some of the jigs and fixtures I use but that is one of the things I like to do.
Ed
{Knight of the Shopsmith} [Hero's don't wear capes, they wear dog tags]
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judaspre1982
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1237
- Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:10 pm
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Last edited by judaspre1982 on Sun May 07, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I believe the support bearings used on the bandsaw are 608-2RS/608zz. These can be had on Ebay for next to nothing -- I saw a set of 10 going for $8.33 with free shipping. These likely are from China. Just search Ebay for item 130514333400. I'm sure there are other bargains there as well. There's little need for quality bearings for supporting the bandsaw blades, so these should work fine. In any event, you'll have plenty of spares.
For a bandsaw insert, you could fashion one out of plexiglass, lexan, or even wood, cutting it round to rough size on a bandsaw or scrollsaw, and then finishing it to the appropriate diameter and edge thickness using lathe chisels. Drill a hole in the center of the cutout and mount it on the Shopsmith lathe screw center with an appropriately sized stove bolt or take a regular bolt and saw off the hex head and mount it in the drill chuck. Then cut a slot for sliding the insert past the blade.
For a bandsaw insert, you could fashion one out of plexiglass, lexan, or even wood, cutting it round to rough size on a bandsaw or scrollsaw, and then finishing it to the appropriate diameter and edge thickness using lathe chisels. Drill a hole in the center of the cutout and mount it on the Shopsmith lathe screw center with an appropriately sized stove bolt or take a regular bolt and saw off the hex head and mount it in the drill chuck. Then cut a slot for sliding the insert past the blade.
Art in Western Pennsylvania