Conical sanding disk and blade sharpening jig.
Moderators: HopefulSSer, admin
Thanks a lot for the replies. Do ya'll go directly into the jointer with this approach or then onto honing? My plane blade I go from 1k, 4k, 8k them to leather strop with green stuff. My turning tools are at whatever grit the white grinding wheel is. I like the results in each approach. I have never done jointer/planer blades.
thanks.
thanks.
SS Mark V (1983 from Grandfather) upgraded to a 510, pieces to make a 500 mini, SS bandsaw, belt sander, broken scroll saw, and strip sander, Jet VS Mini Lathe, and tons of Lee Valley and vintage Stanley planes. Woodcraft slow speed grinder and a German made Tormek wannabe. Ridgid TS 3650 Table Saw, General 80-075LM Jointer.
- terrydowning
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 1678
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 3:26 pm
- Location: Windsor, CO
IMO
There is a huge difference in sharpening edges for power driven cutters and hand tools. (A lathe chisel is in fact a power driven cutting edge BTW)
It's all about cutting inches, blade material and impact.
For Machine driven edges I don't see a need to hone like you do for hand tools. The impact is too hard due to the force of the power driven cutter, cutting angle, amount of inches cut between sharpenings etc.
Add to this the fact that most power driven edges are harder HSS and just will not take as keen of an edge as the W1 or O1 steel on most hand tools.
The farthest I go on "honing" on power driven cutters is to run a coarse diamond stone (One of the credit card sized ones) across the edge. I touch them up occasionally between sharpenings.
Just how I do it, and my thoughts on the subject.
There is a huge difference in sharpening edges for power driven cutters and hand tools. (A lathe chisel is in fact a power driven cutting edge BTW)
It's all about cutting inches, blade material and impact.
For Machine driven edges I don't see a need to hone like you do for hand tools. The impact is too hard due to the force of the power driven cutter, cutting angle, amount of inches cut between sharpenings etc.
Add to this the fact that most power driven edges are harder HSS and just will not take as keen of an edge as the W1 or O1 steel on most hand tools.
The farthest I go on "honing" on power driven cutters is to run a coarse diamond stone (One of the credit card sized ones) across the edge. I touch them up occasionally between sharpenings.
Just how I do it, and my thoughts on the subject.
--
Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmpX5k8IhN7ahFCo9VvTDsCpoV_g
Public Photos of Projects
http://sdrv.ms/MaXNLX
Terry
Copy and paste the URLs into your browser if you want to see the photos.
1955 Shopsmith Mark 5 S/N 296860 Workshop and Tools
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AmpX5k8IhN7ahFCo9VvTDsCpoV_g
Public Photos of Projects
http://sdrv.ms/MaXNLX
I'd say to do the same with the jointer blade. It seems to me that approach is a little overkill, but you might get better results that way.ibskot wrote: Do ya'll go directly into the jointer with this approach or then onto honing? My plane blade I go from 1k, 4k, 8k them to leather strop with green stuff.
thanks.
SS 500(09/1980), DC3300, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, Strip Sander, drum sanders,molder, dado, biscuit joiner, universal lathe tool rest, Oneway talon chuck, router bits & chucks and a De Walt 735 planer,a #5,#6, block planes. ALL in a 100 square foot shop.
.
.
Bob
.
.
Bob
This was my thought on turning tools. I can get a really nice surface from a bowl grind from a low speed grinder (not Tormek). On flat work all my surfaces get hand planed anyway.terrydowning wrote:IMO
There is a huge difference in sharpening edges for power driven cutters and hand tools. (A lathe chisel is in fact a power driven cutting edge BTW)
It's all about cutting inches, blade material and impact.
For Machine driven edges I don't see a need to hone like you do for hand tools. The impact is too hard due to the force of the power driven cutter, cutting angle, amount of inches cut between sharpenings etc.
Add to this the fact that most power driven edges are harder HSS and just will not take as keen of an edge as the W1 or O1 steel on most hand tools.
The farthest I go on "honing" on power driven cutters is to run a coarse diamond stone (One of the credit card sized ones) across the edge. I touch them up occasionally between sharpenings.
Just how I do it, and my thoughts on the subject.
SS Mark V (1983 from Grandfather) upgraded to a 510, pieces to make a 500 mini, SS bandsaw, belt sander, broken scroll saw, and strip sander, Jet VS Mini Lathe, and tons of Lee Valley and vintage Stanley planes. Woodcraft slow speed grinder and a German made Tormek wannabe. Ridgid TS 3650 Table Saw, General 80-075LM Jointer.
Beeg that's an excellent reference. I'm sure somebody will benefit.
SS Mark V (1983 from Grandfather) upgraded to a 510, pieces to make a 500 mini, SS bandsaw, belt sander, broken scroll saw, and strip sander, Jet VS Mini Lathe, and tons of Lee Valley and vintage Stanley planes. Woodcraft slow speed grinder and a German made Tormek wannabe. Ridgid TS 3650 Table Saw, General 80-075LM Jointer.
- robinson46176
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:00 pm
- Location: Central Indiana (Shelbyville)
I stumbled on this doing some grinding research and remembered this thread. Thought it might be of interest to some. Look at the nice blade holding jigs in post #25.
I have some wet grinding equipment that I was looking at tool holder ideas for. It is actually lapidary equipment but will serve me well for wet tool grinding.
I have some wet grinding equipment that I was looking at tool holder ideas for. It is actually lapidary equipment but will serve me well for wet tool grinding.
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
- JPG
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 34610
- Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:42 pm
- Location: Lexington, Ky (TAMECAT territory)
Did you forget something?:rolleyes:robinson46176 wrote:I stumbled on this doing some grinding research and remembered this thread. Thought it might be of interest to some. Look at the nice blade holding jigs in post #25.
I have some wet grinding equipment that I was looking at tool holder ideas for. It is actually lapidary equipment but will serve me well for wet tool grinding.
╔═══╗
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
╟JPG ╢
╚═══╝
Goldie(Bought New SN 377425)/4" jointer/6" beltsander/12" planer/stripsander/bandsaw/powerstation /Scroll saw/Jig saw /Craftsman 10" ras/Craftsman 6" thicknessplaner/ Dayton10"tablesaw(restoredfromneighborstrashpile)/ Mark VII restoration in 'progress'/ 10E[/size](SN E3779) restoration in progress, a 510 on the back burner and a growing pile of items to be eventually returned to useful life. - aka Red Grange
- robinson46176
- Platinum Member
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:00 pm
- Location: Central Indiana (Shelbyville)
JPG wrote:Did you forget something?:rolleyes:
Often...
OMG often...
Post #25...
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/51547-Planer-blade-sharpening-Why-Not/page3
.
--
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
farmer
Francis Robinson
I did not equip with Shopsmiths in spite of the setups but because of them.
1 1988 - Mark V 510 (bought new), 4 Poly vee 1 1/8th HP Mark V's, Mark VII, 1 Mark V Mini, 1 Frankensmith, 1 10-ER, 1 Mark V Push-me-Pull-me Drillpress, SS bandsaw, belt sander, jointer, jigsaw, shaper attach, mortising attach, TS-3650 Rigid tablesaw, RAS, 6" long bed jointer, Foley/Belsaw Planer/molder/ripsaw, 1" sander, oscillating spindle/belt sander, Scroll saw, Woodmizer sawmill
Re:
JPG wrote:ibskot wrote:Thanks, I will.
Stupid question.... when I look at pics it looks like the disk is rotating towards the edge of the bade being sharpened. Doesn't this pose a safety risk? Obviously it works as people do it. Also, how long does it take? Thanks
The 'line' of contact with the conical disk is on a vertical line passing through the central axis of the disk. Therefore there is a slight clearance at the periphery of the disk. However there is some risk here! One must make sure their body parts do not come in contact with the spinning disk!!!
Secret is to grind a small amount at a time. That prevents over heating, and minimizes amount of material being made into fine powder.
Notice there are two handles. Place one hand upon each handle!! That helps keep them 'out of harm's way'.
It is important to keep any obstructions away from the path the jig slides on. Also maintain contact with both the table top and the fence.
This can get a bit 'tricky' since the fence tends to get in the way, hence the long handles.
Bill mentioned it, but to make sure you understand it, the blades must be flush against the bottom of the 'slot'. A spring on the clamping screws has a tendency to prevent that(IIRC, I made mine, and do not have the SS version).
Realize the grind angle will be determined by the table tilt. FWIW, the conical disk is closer to about 3.3° than 4°. I believe the jig angle is 45°.
How long depends upon how many passes and dexterity in changing the blades in the jig. I recommend a slow attack the first time using it.
One caveat! Tis far too easy to increase the amount of grind(quill feed) too much. So take teeny tiny quill advancement steps!!! Helps prevent over heating and excessive material being converted to steel powder.
P.S. Dennis snuck in here as I was hunt n pecking this!
Hi JPG,
I agree with all you said with two caveats.
First, you mentioned the disk angle and table tilt will determine the grind angle. That is certainly true but SS does not call for changing the table from 90 degrees when using the jig. Of course you certainly can change the grind angle if you want to for some reason.
The second is using the quill feed to increase the grind amount. The SS instructions actually call for lowering the table slightly to increase the grind. This can be easily overdone just as the quill feed. However, with the adjustable stop collar on the table you can lower the table very precisely.
Having said that, the jig work very well. One thing I would suggest is that you make one pass on each blade before moving the table for a second or third pass. That way all the blades come out the same width. I also number each blade and the cutter head so the blades go back in the same position. That way it usually does not require adjusting the blade height adjustment screws.
Of course with jointer blades they all fit in the jig at the same time so the above is not an issue.
The bottom line is the jig just works and two or at the most three passes gets razor sharp blades unless they are really hosed up. It takes longer to remove and re-install the blades than it does to sharpen them.
John & Mary Burger
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT
Eagle's Lair Woodshop
Hooper, UT